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InfiniteDays

Should racist/bigots in the fandom be exposed?

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So lately, I've come across bigots in the fandom such as a certain person who have expressed racist views. Due to this, I was wondering, should bigots be exposed for who they are in the fandom?  I do not mean doxxing, I mean like make people aware of their bigotry. 

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Honestly I am against internet witch hunts and mob mentality. Besides we can't and should never attempt to control people's opinions. If they have undesirable view then they have an undesirable view, the end. That is what it means living in free world with guaranteed human rights. Internet people today are so obsessed these days.

Now if a person commits actual acts of racism, bigotry, whatever then point them out to the appropriate authority. You know, the people who's job it is to settle these things. And if that fails then get an angry mob as the last resort.   

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If the person is doing it to start trouble, address it in a appropriate manner (banning them from the fourm, etc). To be really frank, I'm sure we're all done of the drama that has occurred in the past. 

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witch hunts only end in a massive storm of drama that is something we're done with

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I don't like the whole call-out mentality that goes with the social justice movement. Nobody's going to change their mind about something because they got shamed for it, they'll just double down on their wrong belief and get tighter with that belief's support circle. "You're wrong about something, therefore you are Bad," is what it boils down to, which is neither true nor terribly productive.

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3 hours ago, InfiniteDays said:

But should racist really be tolerated?

If they're not doing anything illegal, I don't see why not? We (the fandom not me) tolerate cloppers and other weirdos in this fandom, I don't see the harm in tolerating someone who believes a different thing.

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22 minutes ago, Nile Komnenos said:

If they're not doing anything illegal, I don't see why not? We (the fandom not me) tolerate cloppers and other weirdos in this fandom, I don't see the harm in tolerating someone who believes a different thing.

It's not just a simple difference. Their beliefs are toxic and harmful and can have social issues. Racism has been responsible for a lot of tragedies in human history.

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27 minutes ago, InfiniteDays said:

It's not just a simple difference. Their beliefs are toxic and harmful and can have social issues. Racism has been responsible for a lot of tragedies in human history.

And people who promote clop and pornography have been responsible for a lot of social problems and are harmful to thousands to millions of people.

If you can have one group in but not the other, it seems a bit silly.

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4 hours ago, InfiniteDays said:

But should racist really be tolerated?

"Racist" doesn't mean anything anymore. It used to mean a person who thought that people of the same approximate skin color and geographical region as them were objectively the best people, and all others were like cattle to be controlled and traded as possessions. Now, it just refers to people who make crude jokes, or aren't huge on immigration, or talk in exaggerated foreign accents sometimes among their friends. It's just society being overzealous in correcting something we were way, way too slow to catch onto. You can't lump neo-Nazis in the same category as Uncle Frank who thinks it's hilarious to stretch out the skin around his eyes and switch out his 'R's and 'L's. Everyone is some degree of racist; if they aren't calling for outright genocide, then either educate them or just let it go.

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7 hours ago, Nile Komnenos said:

Cancer

 

>He doesn't know the countermanding principles of Negative Liberty as an assurance to an individual's free pursuit of happiness and safety vs positive liberty.

 

2 hours ago, Nile Komnenos said:

And people who promote clop and pornography have been responsible for a lot of social problems and are harmful to thousands to millions of people.
 

I doubt that, eroticism has been a fairly neutral affect of human culture since time the moment man learned to do art and write. Some of the earliest forms of writing were considerably erotic. There are plenty of erotic poems from out of Ancient Egypt and Sumer. Unless your identifying "clop" as being an issue on par with the modern pornography industry then it's not so much that the nature of erotic works is bad, but that systematized commercialization of pornography contributes to such a mass market saturation of sausages in buns feeds into a setting of incredibly accessible pornography. This of course means also that it's such a aspect that in places like Derpibooru it can be turned off at user's will. Porn in this aspect is much more a content issue vs a issue of the people.

 

The matter of racists and bigots in the community and how they are treated or interact with it is much on the level of the nature of positive vs negative freedom. Or: the freedom from the thing, and the freedom to do the thing. In absolute forms neither can exist and have to be negotiated. While I can't certainly punch them out of it, the least that can be done is less saying, "they have the right to do the thing" while ignoring the people they make uncomfortable or the over-all negative image they give in the fandom, and more saying, "perhaps they shouldn't get the platform in the fandom's public spaces".

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If a site doesn't want to host people who hold racially charged views then I mean I can't exactly stop it, but I think freedom of speech trumps your feelings.

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2 minutes ago, Nile Komnenos said:

If a site doesn't want to host people who hold racially charged views then I mean I can't exactly stop it, but I think freedom of speech trumps your feelings.

 

Appealing to a broad freedom is a weak-ass argument and you're going to need to innumerate.

 

Because even in real world application of the philosophy where we have exceptions when it comes to hate speech, credible threats, NDAs, "fighting words", and so on, then it's not entirely unreasonable to raise an exception for anything that would make a group uncomfortable or uninvited in the community or the fandom. The double punch too comes up that for a show like MLP, to frankly accept calls of death or inferiority of a group of people or type of person within the fandom is antithetical to the shows thematic principle and shows the fandom as being hypocrites.

 

But then again, we're all a bunch of Don Quixotes.

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Alright, your highness.

I think someone who wants to express their view, no matter how absurd or insensitive, has more of a priority than some left-wing lunatic shouting about "muh racism". I don't care about this "positive vs. negative liberty" autism, one person having the right to express his beliefs is more important than someone who is offended by their speech. Just the same as someone's right to own and operate a firearm is more important than some student protesters in an astroturfed "grassroots movement" complaining that guns exist.

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Seeing the responses of these two individuals, I'm not surprised they think racism should be tolerated.  You two are most likely racist yourself but don't want to admit it.

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1 hour ago, Nile Komnenos said:

If a site doesn't want to host people who hold racially charged views then I mean I can't exactly stop it, but I think freedom of speech trumps your feelings.

free_speech.png

"I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express."

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I'm not saying people have to listen to you, never did I. And I said if a private enterprise doesn't want you to be on their site it's their call.

I'm saying that someone crying about racism is less important to me than someone's ability to espouse what they believe. This can mean someone can stand in public and decry how much they hate blacks or whites and not be assaulted or have some leftists with megaphones impede on his ability to speak. And just like in those other ventures, you don't have to listen to them, and you especially don't have the right to assault them. Debate them or be on your way.

Why is someone's feelings over supposed racism, more important than someone's freedom to express what they believe if they are not doing anything illegal?

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2 hours ago, Nile Komnenos said:

If a site doesn't want to host people who hold racially charged views then I mean I can't exactly stop it, but I think freedom of speech trumps your feelings.

 

How many times do edgelords have to be slapped with xkcd #1357 before they finally understand that getting permbanned for shitposting anti-semitic garbage is hardly equivalent to Solzhenitsyn doing a decade in the gulags for mildly criticizing Stalin in a letter

 

23 minutes ago, Nile Komnenos said:

and not be assaulted or have some leftists with megaphones 

 

>implying these two things are remotely equivalent 

 

"Hey don't SHOUT SLOGANS at me bro, that's the same as physical assault, pwease no steppy"

 

Btw if somebody cold cocked a jihadist sympathizer holding one of those  "BEHEAD THOSE WHO SAY ISLAM IS VIOLENT" signs we saw in Britain last decade, I'd bet a hefty sack of bits that you'd join me in laughing at the karma instead whining and crying and kissing their boo-boos and raising money for their hospital bills like when Richard Spencer caught a fade.

 

Freedom of Speech is AWESOME and protecting the most extreme voices from either side is indeed crucial to preserving it, but in this messy real world of ours "talk shit get hit" is also a thing. 

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On 4/12/2018 at 5:13 AM, InfiniteDays said:

So lately, I've come across bigots in the fandom such as a certain person who have expressed racist views. Due to this, I was wondering, should bigots be exposed for who they are in the fandom?  I do not mean doxxing, I mean like make people aware of their bigotry. 

 

I'm not really sure what you're hoping to achieve here tbh. "exposing" generally only works when the person is already notable and their toxic-ness isn't public knowledge. In all likelihood this person probably already surrounds themselves with fellow bigots who would see your attempt as a badge of honor. 

 

Definitely blow up Twitter if homeboy ever becomes a community guest at a con or something tho lol. 

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I really don't approve of violence being used as a justification for speech you don't like. I strongly oppose Islamic extremism, but I'm also a Christian. I cannot justify smashing someone's head in over their words. It's not "karma", it's barbarism. A "talk shit, get hit" situation is much different than what I am describing. Deliberately trying to agitate a fight and getting it is different from a street preacher being assaulted for his beliefs.

And again, no one who legitimately understands free speech cries "censorship" when a private enterprise says they shouldn't say certain things. That's not at all what I'm talking about.

 

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A debate about freedom of speech on the Internet! Where have I seen this before?

Oh, right. Everywhere. Has anyone not heard these arguments before? The government can't arrest you for saying terrible things, and that's good. Let's get on with debating those terrible things instead of trying to determine exactly what degree of "allowed" we should be to argue for them. I for one would like to take a bold stance against racism. This will of course be immediately challenged by the pro-discrimination faction, for which there is still much public support.

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