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InfiniteDays

Should racist/bigots in the fandom be exposed?

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I speak from my Eastern Orthodox perspective, the one that rejects many things American Protestantism (and even Catholicism) tries to push. Sorry if my Christianity isn't what your liberal interpretation says it should be. What you see as "Pharisee corruption" I see as honing in a sense of morality that should be retained. I don't condemn sinners and those who do evil things, but I will surely tell them they need to stop doing it.

St. Paul did what I believe was necessary, when you reject what he did for the church you get things like Anglicanism, which allows homosexuals to become bishops. Now I'm sure most Catholic priests are gay simply based on how many of them are caught doing so, but in Orthodoxy we don't tolerate it.

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1 hour ago, Nile Komnenos said:

All of my ideas are just things I believe and would prefer, I'm not looking to install policy on how to do all this stuff.

That's kind of besides the point.  I never accused you of wanting to implement these things in the real world, we're just dealing with the abstract. However, even in the abstract you're positing a kid of racial exclusivity as a preferable state for society.

I don't want everyone to think like me all the time. I don't want everyone to be into all the same stuff I am. I don't want to be constantly surrounded by people who only believe the same things I do. That's such an absurdly limited state of being that it can hardly be called a "society" at all. If everyone else had the same thoughts and beliefs as me, we'd never have eliminated small pox. Not because I don't want small pox-free world, but because I'm so very limited by my own worldview that I'm incapable of bringing it about; even an army of me couldn't do it. There's a trite saying that "it takes all kinds to make a world," but it's absolutely true. A uniform society is stagnant and blind, regardless of how much internal agreement it can boast.

What worries me is when people say their ideal situation is one where everyone shares their beliefs, and especially when they show that they want everyone to share their prejudices.

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6 minutes ago, Nile Komnenos said:

I speak from my Eastern Orthodox perspective, the one that rejects many things American Protestantism (and even Catholicism) tries to push. Sorry if my Christianity isn't what your liberal interpretation says it should be. What you see as "Pharisee corruption" I see as honing in a sense of morality that should be retained. I don't condemn sinners and those who do evil things, but I will surely tell them they need to stop doing it.

St. Paul did what I believe was necessary, when you reject what he did for the church you get things like Anglicanism, which allows homosexuals to become bishops. Now I'm sure most Catholic priests are gay simply based on how many of them are caught doing so, but in Orthodoxy we don't tolerate it.

To step into the specific doctrinal issues for a moment, it's kind of funny to see someone accuse "liberals" of being accepting of homosexuality. That's like accusing someone of not being racist. Most of us don't see it as a negative. Treating people with dignity and respect is something we're supposed to be proud of.

I understand that your views won't let you tolerate what you consider a sinful behavior like homosexuality. You don't seem to appreciate what your intolerance actually does to other human beings. Intolerance is what tears communities and people apart, not the presence of proscribed sexual behaviors. When LGBT youth commit suicide in higher numbers than their straight peers, it's often because their families and community are intolerant of their orientation or gender identity, not because the youths are the ones committing sins. You gave an example earlier of Southwestern US communities ostracizing English-speakers. The problem there isn't that the people don't have a common faith system, the problem there is intolerance. When I invoked the massive social issues plaguing my part of the country regarding racism, it's not because the two major segregated units didn't share a common set of religious beliefs about sinfulness, it's because the socially dominant one was starkly intolerant of the socially oppressed one.

It's very telling that you described yourself as being more willing to live under Shariah Law than to tolerate sinfulness or atheism in society around you. That tells me your issue isn't really about your Orthodox religious beliefs, no matter how sincere those beliefs are.

 

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14 minutes ago, ABronyAccount said:

It's very telling that you described yourself as being more willing to live under Shariah Law than to tolerate sinfulness or atheism in society around you. That tells me your issue isn't really about your Orthodox religious beliefs, no matter how sincere those beliefs are.

 

These are issues the church talks about and has a stance, and I accept that stance. Even though I don't like Islam, Orthodox Christianity has had a long history with Islam and we share common social beliefs. I'm fine being under that than being told I should accept same-sex marriage and liberal ideas, otherwise I'm some kind of backwards wingnut. These are beliefs I do not hold, and I don't like living in a society that accepts it, just like I wouldn't like living in a place where communism was the law of the land.

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All of that sounds extremely problematic to me, but I think this is veering too far into personal territory. Suffice it to say that your elaboration hasn't put up a compelling argument to my concern.

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1 hour ago, Nile Komnenos said:

I speak from my Eastern Orthodox perspective, the one that rejects many things American Protestantism (and even Catholicism) tries to push. Sorry if my Christianity isn't what your liberal interpretation says it should be. What you see as "Pharisee corruption" I see as honing in a sense of morality that should be retained. I don't condemn sinners and those who do evil things, but I will surely tell them they need to stop doing it.

St. Paul did what I believe was necessary, when you reject what he did for the church you get things like Anglicanism, which allows homosexuals to become bishops. Now I'm sure most Catholic priests are gay simply based on how many of them are caught doing so, but in Orthodoxy we don't tolerate it.

 

Then which Orthodox church are you accepting? The side of the church that accepts Russian policy or not? The Eastern tradition is no less free of doctrinal dispute as the western tradition and as such even within itself - as without itself an in the broad Christian world - can not possibly claim the single cloth of being the true belief. Let alone even, once your magical one-church state is formed, then what happens when a doctrinal split happens? Are the new ones less Christian than you?

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I've said my piece so I'm good for this thread, but I do enjoy engaging no matter how much I may disagree with something. I do apologize if I said (or wrote, rather) anything rude or abrasive but I do have some passion in what I believe in.

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20 hours ago, Nile Komnenos said:

As far as religion goes, I think liberalism and secularism have done a lot of harm by trying to allow a free-for-all in these nations and not installing a real sense of morality.

A real sense of morality is unique to the individual and develops out of empathy. Religions teach a single code of conduct, which does get everyone on the same page, morality-wise, but the downside is that silly or even harmful ideas slip into the dogma over time and get taught as the immutable Word of God. I don't know how the dumb-shit idea developed that the same-sex attraction some people are born with is more evil than the baby-producing kind, considering God is supposed to have created everyone and if he really had a problem with it he could just stop wiring certain people's heads that way. But since God doesn't have much to say personally on the matter (or any other in living memory), people can ascribe whatever logic to the situation makes them feel OK about it. As far as morality goes, nothing beats genuinely caring about other people's health and happiness, and you don't need religion for that.

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I'll jump in once more just to respond to a few things:

1 hour ago, Friendship is Horses said:

I don't know how the dumb-shit idea developed that the same-sex attraction some people are born with is more evil than the baby-producing kind, considering God is supposed to have created everyone and if he really had a problem with it he could just stop wiring certain people's heads that way. But since God doesn't have much to say personally on the matter (or any other in living memory), people can ascribe whatever logic to the situation makes them feel OK about it.

-It's not being homosexual that's the main problem, it's homosexual acts. It's the same as in Islam. Homosexual sex is seen as nothing more than lustful pleasure that serves no biological purpose, which is why straight couples are approved of since they can have children. It's been that way since Genesis. God creates people with disabilities, diseases and psychological ailments as well, most of the time things you cannot control. You can, as a homosexual, control your sinful sexual urges. (Not saying you are a homosexual, just to be clear)
-God may not speak to us directly, but we have the teachings He gave to Jesus. It's only up for interpretation in heretical churches, us in the Orthodox sphere have kept the same doctrine since the founding of the church two millennia ago.

1 hour ago, Friendship is Horses said:

As far as morality goes, nothing beats genuinely caring about other people's health and happiness, and you don't need religion for that.

Sure you probably don't need religion for it, but it helps.

I don't want to derail this thread further into a religion debate, so I'm backing out again. But I wanted to share my piece.

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5 hours ago, Nile Komnenos said:

Sure you probably don't need religion for it, but it helps.

No see, your version of religion does not help, it actually does the opposite, because it makes people feel like they are bad and wrong for the natural feelings they have. Sometimes they even kill themselves over it! Basing your morality on some very old texts from another time and culture that have been translated multiple times from their original language is not superior to compassion.

Religion is great for organizing efforts at positive change; corporations certainly don't give a shit beyond their quarterly financial reports, and the government's pretty busy just trying to keep everything from collapsing entirely. So I'll give it that. But the idea that anything that feels good must be evil needs to die.

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On 4/18/2018 at 2:36 PM, Nile Komnenos said:

 

-God may not speak to us directly, but we have the teachings He gave to Jesus. It's only up for interpretation in heretical churches, us in the Orthodox sphere have kept the same doctrine since the founding of the church two millennia ago.

Up until the church again splits over crazy shit just like the west because someone made the sign of the cross wrong so you start breaking heads and it's an entire intersectional war. Or someone plays with the calendar and you split three ways. Or someone in the church decides to wave away the entire argument of sex by carrying out castration and mascetomy of the congregation. Or decides someone needs to be whipped.

 

Or, while not claiming it's no-homo you just straight up marry same-sex individuals anyways because if you tell Jesus it's no homo it's no homo. This has been a facet of the Eastern Church for a thousand years too.

 

There is no original teaching of the church if even on many levels - modern included - you're not able to agree on Jesus's divinity or the canonical status of the Old Testiment.

 

But also too I need to know: Do you support that church the supports the Fascist government of Ukraine? Or the church that supports the Fascist government of Russia? A slav needs to know.

 

What is your position on the Gregory Palamas vs Barlaam battle?

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@InfiniteDays I skimmed it. They're already a proud Trump supporter, it looks like, so what exactly needs exposing? A certain level of stubborn ignorance is assumed. Your call-out is redundant and no one is going to care.

Might as well pick a fight with Trump supporters, see how many typical internet debates we can host inside this thread. :rdwink:

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1 hour ago, Friendship is Horses said:

@InfiniteDays I skimmed it. They're already a proud Trump supporter, it looks like, so what exactly needs exposing? A certain level of stubborn ignorance is assumed. Your call-out is redundant and no one is going to care.

Might as well pick a fight with Trump supporters, see how many typical internet debates we can host inside this thread. :rdwink:

Their racism needs exposing. Did you see the Arab comment.

 

Actually, this person insist they aren't racist so I don't think it's redundant as they are being exposed.

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On 4/17/2018 at 4:17 PM, Nile Komnenos said:

I'm not for abortion, pornography, same-sex marriage or the promotion of sex just being something done for carnal pleasure. We've lost our way and now a lot of the (in my opinion) civilized world laughs at the West for allowing this kind of behavior to continue.

Abortion and same-sex marriage are in no way similar to pornography. Pornography exploits people who by being so young cannot consent to sexual acts. Same-sex marriage is simply a loving union between 2 people of the same sex. Abortion is sometimes necessary when the health of the mother involved is at risk as well as other reasons. It is not uncivilized to be pro-choice or to be in a gay marriage.

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50 minutes ago, InfiniteDays said:

So, should I go and expose this racist? No doxxing though.

 

I mean, that's up to you. Fandom drama ain't my thang.

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