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Sum up an episode in 8 words.

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1 hour ago, Jerry Modene said:

S2 E14:. The Last Roundup:  Hasbro: "We just don't know what went wrong."

Har! 

 

S2 E15 - The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000: Holy shit, that's a long freaking episode title!

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48 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

"To Where and Back Again" - Oh Look.  Celestia and Luna got worfed again.

At a certain point, when you start complaining about a consistently-portrayed character trait, it's probably time to re-evaluate your initial assumptions.

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22 minutes ago, ABronyAccount said:

At a certain point, when you start complaining about a consistently-portrayed character trait, it's probably time to re-evaluate your initial assumptions.

They've basically taken a character who's creation was inspired by great Literary characters like Dumbledore and Gandalf, and turned them into Princess Peach. 

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8 hours ago, The Doctor said:

They've basically taken a character who's creation was inspired by great Literary characters like Dumbledore and Gandalf, and turned them into Princess Peach. 

Let me run through a few things real quick.

1) I can't find anything from Faust about her inspiration being those figures. The only info I can dig up is the old deviantArt comments where she say she wanted Celestia's abilities to be vaguely-defined and mysterious even to Faust herself. 

2) Even if true, it doesn't mean she has to follow in their footsteps of being just about the most powerful being around. In fact, I think that would be a little disappointing; saying "here's a pony Dumbledore who is in charge because she's The Strongest" is much less impressive in terms of character design. It falls into the old trope of Authority Equals Ass-kicking. Not only is that not how things work in the real world, it's also a narrow, overused, and characteristically macho approach to fictional hierarchy that we can really do without so much of.

3) Neither of those two were actual heads of state.

- Gandalf's superficial role in Middle Earth was an itinerant consultant and miracle worker with no rank among society, like all the wizards. In fact, in all of Tolkien's works I can only recall one example of a Maia taking an actual, authority-wielding head-of-state role on the side of good, and it wasn't an Istari. We have two doing so on the side of evil: Sauron and Sauruman (attempted), both depicted as abusing their powers to gain worldly authority that wasn't supposed to belong to them.

- Even Dumbledore wasn't the head of the Wizarding World's side of UK government, he was the head of its leading high school. Tremendously respected outside of that role of course, and connected to the highest levels of government in an intelligence role, but not himself occupying an actual high office.

Celestia has a role as one of the two princesses over all of Equestria, and for controlling the Sun. None of that implies that she has to be a top-level ninja battlemage world champion; in fact, the more guards and soldiers she has the less necessity there is for protecting Equestria by her own might and prowess in scrap. Maybe she's much better at administration and non-combat uses of magic, the kinds of things she would have to know in her 1,000+ year role as head of state and undefined tenure as headmistress?

4) We know almost nothing of her in Season 1 besides the fact that Nightmare Moon captured her, so she'd already been defeated at least once under Faust's reign on the show. She was helpless against Discord in the season 2 premiere, which again happened while Faust was running things. She's rarely depicted as being all that superior even in her "prime" before the time of the Mane Six but, continuing in the Faustian tradition she wasn't exactly a War Goddess. She and Luna both used the Elements of Harmony to deal with Discord in the flashback during Season 4, just like the regular pony Mane 6 do. The depiction of their battle with Sombra is more ambiguously presented, and all it says of Tirek is that he was banished to Tartarus.  The only time she really gets into an all-out brawl is against Nightmare Moon, which seemed to be about the same level of flying-and-zapping as the battle between Starlight and Twilight.

So... what? Faust intentionally left the extent of Celestia's abilities mysterious and undefined but also saw to it that Celestia never won just by being a badass while she was on the show staff. Just about everything we've seen of her in the series has been internally self-consistent.

A true Worfing would require us to know ahead of time that the character is supposed to be nigh-unbeatable, then have the new antagonist come along and womp them effortlessly just to set up how much of a challenge they are. We've never had this established for Princess Celestia.

It doesn't match your expectations, but what were your expectations even based on in the first place? It doesn't seem to be material from the show, so what are you bringing in as equal or superior to the show, the primary source of canon, itself? If you have some Word of God on the subject of Celestia's power and abilities I'd love to see it so that I can improve my own understanding.

 

Season Six Episode 26 - Trixie v. Discord: Clash of the Overblown Egos

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Well the comics and the books show Celestia and Luna as powerful figures.  Very rarely have the comics gone down the road of just having them get captured to get them out of the way (has really only happened once and, until the S6 finale, was easily the dumbest way it's been done in the franchise).  in regards to Celestia, both the comics and the books have shown that she is incredibly powerful, even to the point that she'll start glowing gold (she basically has a SSJ mode).  Heck, Celestia is the one who blasted all the holes into the Changelings.  She's also the only pony to ever wield all the elements on her own. 

And then you look at Amy Keating Roger's book. Celestia and Luna were brought to Equestria to be it's leaders and guardians.  They ruled for a long time before Discord showed up, and did so without the need for the elements.  Celestia ran it by herself for a thousand years.  This lore that has been has set up is totally at odds with a show that shows these two as weak and helpless leaders in every single 2-part finale this show has done. 

Instead, the show has basically turned them into Princess Peach.  Celestia and Luna in regards to the finales, are props.  They aren't characters.  They're there to get captured to build some cheap, quick tension. 

 

As for Celestia in the first two seasons, she wasn't shown to be captured in the pilot.  I know Faust has said that was originally her intention, but that wasn't what was shown on screen.  What we saw on screen was Luna leave the moon and go straight to Ponyville.  Unless she made a 1-2 second stop in Canterlot.   I have my own personal headcanon about what Celestia was doing during that time, but it's just a theory.   Second season, Celestia actually has to help fix Twilight before Twilight can fix the other.  Incredibly minor role, but it's there. 

Then you have the S2 finale.  Honestly, I love it.   I even like how Celestia was captured.  It put a clever twist on the old "love conquers all" trope by having a villain who could use that energy, and managed to suck up so much, she was able to win (and was clearly as surprised about it as anyone)

 

As for comparisons to Dumbledore and Gandalf.  I didn't say they were exactly alike, I said they were inspired by.  And I think there's enough similarities to make that claim. 

 

 

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