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Dumbest moment in Friendship Is Magic

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Friendship Is Magic has had many, many, many great or amazing moments over the years. Conversely, there are many, many, many moments so dumb, you wonder what was going on when DHX was writing and editing the product.

So, here's the question: In your opinion, what's FIM's stupidest moment? It can be from the show, comics, or EQG. Name the moment and please put in effort to explain why. Leave the drive-by declarations in your Word document!


None get any dumber than during the interrogation scene between Vice Principal Luna against Twilight in EQG1.

The reason why: the photos:

Luna_holding_altered_photos_of_Twilight_

None of the photos are photoshopped. Snips, Snails, and Sunset all delivered framed "evidence" of Twilight destroying property by using photos that were cut out and glued on top of each other! Even worse is Luna completely believed them and needed Flash Sentry to come in and save Twilight's hide! She had no idea they were framing her! This sorry side-plot and sorrier excuse of a moment made Luna and Sunset look very incompetent. Everyone came out of that scene looking worse than before. This moment caused EQG1 to jump the shark.

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"Discord has betrayed us!"

5 seconds later...

"OK, lets hide the magic with Twilight, Tirek will never learn about her.  It's not like we just talked about Discord betraying us..." 

All Princesses nod in agreement.

 

I still think that episode started with the fight scene, and Meghan worked backwards to make it happen no matter how illogical the path to get there. 

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As I believe I've mentioned before...

"I didn't learn anything! I was right all along!"

NO YOU WEREN'T, APPLE HORSE. JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE WAS STUPID AND THINGS HAPPENED TO TURN OUT OKAY, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU WERE RIGHT.

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This is going to be a long one.

 

S01E02 - Friendship is Magic: Applejack couldn't just tell Twilight that the two flying ponies that were with them from the start were going to catch her.

S02E26 - Canterlot Wedding: Let's have a wedding despite some threat made against us. What the hell are we even talking about here? How did they even know that something was going to happen, taking in consideration the nature of the invasion, but didn't have a clue about what was going on? Why couldn't the changelings just enter the town in the same way Twilight and friends did? It's unlikely that Shining Armor could tell that they weren't changelings, and how would he even know what to look for? Could he even DO that? Chrysalis couldn't spare real guards to take care of her prisoner? Where was Luna when Chrysalis decided to attack? The Mane Six kicked flank to get to the chamber of the Elements of Harmony. Why did they stop suddenly and surrendered? Chrysalis just sat looking out the window like an idiot while Twilight freed Cadance. Not a single changeling to keep an eye on the prisoners? I'm also willing to call shenanigans on Chrysalis capturing Cadance without any sort of explanation like that.

S03E05 - Magic Duel: Trixie just bought a dangerous artifacts on a simple store a child could walk into. Facing a problem, Twilight didn't go to her teacher Celestia, Luna or Cadance, but Zecora. A whole town's been made slave and there is no sort of response from the higher ups. As far as I know, Celestia and Luna never heard of it.

S03E10 - Keep Calm and Flutter On: Suddenly Celestia can make a spell to keep Discord from messing with the Elements.

S04E01-02 - Princess Twilight Sparkle: Those flashbacks ruined the most epic moments in Equestria's history and turned them into rushed, soulless exposition. Nightmare Moon's one was a complete waste of time that had no reason to exist. And why couldn't Discord just get rid of the vines?

S04E07 - Bats!: Legitimate ethical dilemma took second place to Fluttershy becoming a bat because Twilight Sparkle didn't think about spell interaction. Celestia ought to take her wings back and send her back to magic school because that is pretty much what would've happened to a doctor that didn't know to predict two medications interacting. What the hell do they study in Celestia's school?

S0E16 - It Ain't Easy Being Breezies: pegasi apparently can't control their wing power. Either too much or too little. The solution: TURN INTO BREEZIES! WEEEEEEEEEE...

S04E25-26 - Twilight's Kingdom: Celestia suddenly has the power to wake up in the middle of the night because something is threatening Equestria... She also knows what it is about and sleeps with her royal regalia. Celestia just trusted Discord to deal with Tirek with no supervision and with no help. Why didn't she call the other princesses and wiped the floor with Tirek while he was weak? Then Celestia's plan of giving Twilight their magic and telling her to stick her head in the ground is about as smart as what I just said. How the hell did she keep the throne for 1000 years by herself?? Nevermind... I'll just blame Meghan McCarthy for the nonsense that is this episode... Like Canterlot Wedding.

S05E01-02 - The Cutie Map: How the hell does that map work? It simply decides that now is the time to act, when all of the problems it pointed out to the girls must have been happening for a long time before. Twilight simply decided to let Starlight Glimmer go and didn't even seem to mention the fact that there is a dangerous unicorn at large to the other princesses so that she can be searched for.

S05E07 - Make New Friends But Keep Discord: Discord has not been turned back into a stone statue after his betrayal. And people complain Rainbow Dash got no punishment in Tanks for the Memories. Celestia has gone insane... Instead of making her parties the way she wants, she makes "normal" parties and them sabotages them by inviting the people she knows are going to ruin them. Does she get off on watching the ponies she attracts to her parties having their nights ruined? Discord made a lame joke that made no sense (specially when Twilight was flying okay to save their asses when fighting Tirek) and then Celestia was the only one laughing. Someone explain to me intention here, because I'm almost convinced that Celestia is insane and with Luna being how she is, I fear Equestria is in need of a revolution.

S05E10 - Princess Spike: Cadance... Why didn't you do something? Ponies, why did you take a child seriously? This whole episode wouldn't exist if one of the characters in it had two neurons to spark together.

S05E13 - Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep: Luna, grow up... What was she so distraught over? She didn't have time to DO anything as Nightmare Moon. (Princess Twilight Sparkle is so bad it ruins other episodes). This episode should've been about Celestia feeling bad for using the Elements on her sister for a two minute fight where she didn't even say a word.

S05E15 - Rarity Investigates!: It was so obvious who the culprit was that the episode's style almost didn't save it, Also, Celestia looking charmed with the obvious creep. Even the comics have done better.

S05E17 - Brotherhooves Social: If everybody knew Big Mac was him, then why the hell did he need to dress up and act like that?

S05E22 - What About Discord: "Boring", Discord" and "Episode" should never be allowed together.

S05E23 - The Hooffields and McColts: I get the reference... As I do with all episodes. But in this context, it made no sense: the two stallions wanted to make things that aren't mutually exclusive, but actually necessary, and they had more than enough space to both do what they wanted. The whole episode is based on a flawed set up.

S05E25-26 - The Cutie Re-Mark: worst attempt at the Butterfly Effect ever. The fight scene between Equestria's Lamest and Sombra's slave soldiers was so pathetically executed I couldn't decide if the whole scene was lazy or if the intention was that ponies just can't fight. Ponies had no problem with Nightmare Moon ruling them, plants could grow without a problem in eternal night... What was the problem with Nightmare Moon again? This whole episode feels like an excuse to put the villains on the screen again and it tries to do so much that it manages to not make any of them right. It's a mess, rushed, stupid and mean-spirited.

S06E01-02 - The Crystalling: Cadance's abominable little demonic spawn looks like a deformed beast with it's giant wings and horn. When I first saw the episode's teaser, I couldn't decide if Twilight was shocked at the little beast's appearance or because it was an alicorn. Now we have five princesses. Two of them raised by nondescript alicorns of alicornyness on the city of Lazy Vagueness that got accept by the ponies of Equestria as their leaders for plot convenience; one alicorn that just happened to be magical, another that spent years studying and learning about magic and friendship, actually coming to earn her position, and another one that was just born. What a mess. I suppose that Celestia and Luna are still virgins, for not having foals after thousands of years. TL;DR: Equestria's god is not the Fausticorn. It's the marketing department. But beyond that, this episode felt like two episodes hammered together and what good interaction it had between Spike, Starlight Glimmer and Sunburst felt bittersweet when slapped to the rest of this episode. I can't stomach the idea that five adults, fully trained in magic, one of them the captain of the Royal Guard and the other Twilight Goddamn Sparkle can't control a baby, specially after Baby Cakes, when Twilight knew what was implied in caring for the babies. I also find it hard to believe that Sunburst managed to graduate on what is supposed to be a esteemed teaching institution and not know what to do with his acquired knowledge. Also, suddenly, the Crystal serves to protect against the weather. Everything in this episode is just too contrived. And I want to harp about Celestia and Luna coming to a point where they lose to the weather, but it's just pointless.

S06E08 - A Hearth's Warming Tail: Luna looks too awesome in it!  I'm kidding... It's just another retelling of the classic, but one that manages to suck out the soul of the original because of the stakes becoming too high. In the original, the story was about Scrooge's salvation and because of that was much more intimate and meaningful because it showed that Scrooge's change saved not only him, but also those around him and made everyone's life better. MLP turned it into a stupid fairy tale about monsters and the end of the world because in a world where magic is literally everywhere, this same world is powerless to defend itself from one selfish jerk. I wonder if Celestia is going to look as cool as Luna did, and with such a great song to go with it one day... The point is that it felt like pandering and the whole story didn't mesh very well with MLP's universe to me.

The Books: every single one I've read is a lazy, unimaginative waste of time. It's not because they're meant for children. Seuss' books were too, but they were creative and smart, delivering good lessons in an effective way. MLP books are bad excuses to grab money and mess up canon. Particularly the ones where Celestia is present. I'm convinced someone at Hasbro hates her.

Equestria Girls: it exists.

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Flim and Flam trying to win Sweet Apple Acres out from the Apples. Since the The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000 worked (it wasn't until they were afraid of losing the bet that they removed the quality control), all they had to do was make a deal with the Apple family to make the cider. Even if they only got a quarter of the profits, everyone would come out on top, as the machine increased cider production and there was legit concerns about meeting demand.

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2 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

S06E08 - A Hearth's Warming Tail: Luna looks too awesome in it!  I'm kidding... It's just another retelling of the classic, but one that manages to suck out the soul of the original because of the stakes becoming too high. In the original, the story was about Scrooge's salvation and because of that was much more intimate and meaningful because it showed that Scrooge's change saved not only him, but also those around him and made everyone's life better. MLP turned it into a stupid fairy tale about monsters and the end of the world because in a world where magic is literally everywhere, this same world is powerless to defend itself from one selfish jerk. I wonder if Celestia is going to look as cool as Luna did, and with such a great song to go with it one day... The point is that it felt like pandering and the whole story didn't mesh very well with MLP's universe to me.

The issue I have with this episode is the change it puts on the moral. In the original, Scrooge sees the error of his ways and changes his behaviour for the betterment of himself and everyone around him. In this episode, she changes because if she doesn't, evil spirits will eat the world. Kinda sucks the meaning of the whole thing.

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5 hours ago, Arix said:

As I believe I've mentioned before...

"I didn't learn anything! I was right all along!"

NO YOU WEREN'T, APPLE HORSE. JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE WAS STUPID AND THINGS HAPPENED TO TURN OUT OKAY, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU WERE RIGHT.

You've mentioned it before, but could you give us some more details? How was AJ wrong? She stuck to her principles while the Flim Flam Brothers didn't, so her cider turned out better in the end.

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3 minutes ago, ABronyAccount said:

You've mentioned it before, but could you give us some more details? How was AJ wrong? She stuck to her principles while the Flim Flam Brothers didn't, so her cider turned out better in the end.

Well, let's start out with the fact that she's apparently trying to run a business (because that's absolutely what Sweet Apple Acres is), and yet this shows her as rather incompetent in that regard. The brothers' offer of a 25/75 split is pretty fair - if their help quadruples their sales (which, from what we saw, is not at all an unreasonable expectation), they break even on profits, but have more return business because they have more satisfied customers. If it does any more than that, they actually make more than they used to in addition to the more satisfied customers. Not to mention that they didn't even try to haggle the deal, which the brothers could have been expecting when they set that bargain.

I'll also take this time to say that, as I said in another thread, the brothers are not con men here. They are legitimate businessmen, they have a legitimate product that works and does exactly what they claim it does. This is a genuine business proposition, not a con in any way. And in it, the Apples have all the power. If the brothers walk, the Apples return to business as usual, no harm done. If the Apples walk, though, the brothers have no raw materials and thus no business.

The machine, as we saw, produced much more cider than the Apples could alone - they had to invite the rest of the mane 6, and have everyone pushing themselves to their absolute limit, to even attempt to keep up the pace of the machine. Now that would be fine, if the "traditionally made" cider was of higher quality - but it wasn't. Look at Granny's reaction to trying some during the song - she clearly realises that the machine-made cider is a legitimate threat to their business.

As for "sticking to their principles", that's not true at all. The rules of the competition were that the most cider wins, so the brothers did what it took to produce the most, and they won the competition, fair and square. Things only turned out alright for AJ because the brothers - in their moment of stupidity rivaling AJ's - decided to immediately serve up cider from the batch that had no quality control. They didn't have to serve up cider made during the competition then and there, and they could have easily served up the good quality cider from the start of it (and, as I just said, cider made with the quality control on was just as good if not better than the hoof-made cider).

Let's also take a moment to talk Pinkie buying up so much. The Apples apparently value customer loyalty, and yet they seem to have no issue with having one pony buying up so much stock when they know that they're always short, and still have many, many customers to get through?

So let's count the ways AJ was wrong here:
1. They consistently disappoint their customers by being short on product, but then they allow one customer to buy up bulk.
2. When someone comes along with a perfectly fair and lucrative business proposition to solve the above problem, she outright refuses it despite having all the power to haggle with.
3. She does this because "traditional is better". Granny's own reaction loudly proclaims otherwise.
4. So they hold a competition, setting the rules where quantity wins. She's already seen that the machine can outstrip the whole family at that.
5. So, to keep pace, she invites all of her friends to help. So...if you admit that you need help, why did you not just take the deal to begin with?
6. "Congratulations Flim Flam Brothers, you win the rights to sell cider in our town. Course, we still control all the raw materials, so good luck with that lololol".

But no. Despite countless moments of stupidity from AJ and her family, she was "right along along" just because the brothers themselves made one stupid mistake.

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On September 19, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Arix said:

Well, let's start out with the fact that she's apparently trying to run a business (because that's absolutely what Sweet Apple Acres is), and yet this shows her as rather incompetent in that regard. The brothers' offer of a 25/75 split is pretty fair - if their help quadruples their sales (which, from what we saw, is not at all an unreasonable expectation), they break even on profits, but have more return business because they have more satisfied customers. If it does any more than that, they actually make more than they used to in addition to the more satisfied customers. Not to mention that they didn't even try to haggle the deal, which the brothers could have been expecting when they set that bargain.

I'll also take this time to say that, as I said in another thread, the brothers are not con men here. They are legitimate businessmen, they have a legitimate product that works and does exactly what they claim it does. This is a genuine business proposition, not a con in any way. And in it, the Apples have all the power. If the brothers walk, the Apples return to business as usual, no harm done. If the Apples walk, though, the brothers have no raw materials and thus no business.

The machine, as we saw, produced much more cider than the Apples could alone - they had to invite the rest of the mane 6, and have everyone pushing themselves to their absolute limit, to even attempt to keep up the pace of the machine. Now that would be fine, if the "traditionally made" cider was of higher quality - but it wasn't. Look at Granny's reaction to trying some during the song - she clearly realises that the machine-made cider is a legitimate threat to their business.

As for "sticking to their principles", that's not true at all. The rules of the competition were that the most cider wins, so the brothers did what it took to produce the most, and they won the competition, fair and square. Things only turned out alright for AJ because the brothers - in their moment of stupidity rivaling AJ's - decided to immediately serve up cider from the batch that had no quality control. They didn't have to serve up cider made during the competition then and there, and they could have easily served up the good quality cider from the start of it (and, as I just said, cider made with the quality control on was just as good if not better than the hoof-made cider).

Let's also take a moment to talk Pinkie buying up so much. The Apples apparently value customer loyalty, and yet they seem to have no issue with having one pony buying up so much stock when they know that they're always short, and still have many, many customers to get through?

So let's count the ways AJ was wrong here:
1. They consistently disappoint their customers by being short on product, but then they allow one customer to buy up bulk.
2. When someone comes along with a perfectly fair and lucrative business proposition to solve the above problem, she outright refuses it despite having all the power to haggle with.
3. She does this because "traditional is better". Granny's own reaction loudly proclaims otherwise.
4. So they hold a competition, setting the rules where quantity wins. She's already seen that the machine can outstrip the whole family at that.
5. So, to keep pace, she invites all of her friends to help. So...if you admit that you need help, why did you not just take the deal to begin with?
6. "Congratulations Flim Flam Brothers, you win the rights to sell cider in our town. Course, we still control all the raw materials, so good luck with that lololol".

But no. Despite countless moments of stupidity from AJ and her family, she was "right along along" just because the brothers themselves made one stupid mistake.

 

'Renting a machine that would require you having to quadruple your sales in order to just get back to where you started is not smart in any limited market, which Ponyville is.  Add that they would be using 4x the resources and they're still losing money at quadruple the sales.  So agreeing to the split is right out.

 

Then you add that integrity thing back in...  Making a quality product when things are going perfectly is easy.  The true mark of a maker of a quality product is that they will not let a bad product go out the door.  Inferior parts come in from your supplier?  A quality maker shuts down production until they can correct the issue.  People more concerned with profit than quality assurance use the parts they have since shutting things down is way too big of an expense.  With everything on the line, the Apples refused to budge on the quality of thier cider.  Flim and FLam filled theirs with dirt and rocks to win.  So what do you want to bet on the over-all quality of their machine?  Sure, it's working at the moment, but what about 2 weeks from now? 

 

The brothers actually are con men here... What they have created is an automated process that costs way more than it should, making it of little practical value, and so they are using strong-arm tactics to try to leverage this machine for profit.  You can automate anything... That doesn't make it cost effective.  You say that the Apples "had to invite the rest of the mane 6, and have everyone pushing themselves to their absolute limit, to even attempt to keep up the pace of the machine"... That's not true.  With the help of the Mane Six (and with Twilight just counting and stacking barrels), the Apple family easily outpaced the machine at maximum production and quickly began to come from behind a huge deficit.  All of which exposed the fatal flaw in the machine... With the quality control on, production was capped... it simply could not go any faster.  With the quality control off, it produced garbage.  Hiring a handful of extra farmhands would equal what the Cider Squeezy could do at likely a tiny fraction of what the machine cost.  The machine was impressive, but impractical to the level of being pointless.

 

 

 

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Yeah, what he said.

Also, AJ had the right strategy after all. She managed to sell cider that actually had buyers. They lost the competition, but the competition was ridiculous anyway and AJ correctly tried to stay out of it.

Furthermore, what would the Ponyville health inspectors say if Flim and Flam had stuck around and tried to sell a known tainted batch of cider, enticing ponies with below-cost prices?

Only from the very limited view of "producing the most barrels of cider-containing product" did the Apple family lose anything. But blindly and uncritically adhering to a single criterion is not the best for running a business, or really doing anything in life. AJ had the right approach that took into account more than a singular, easily-gamed metric. (In fact, I bet if you removed all the trees and rocks and dirt from the Flim Flam Bros.' output, the Apple Family probably produced more actual cider.)

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9 hours ago, Harwick said:

'Renting a machine that would require you having to quadruple your sales in order to just get back to where you started is not smart in any limited market, which Ponyville is.  Add that they would be using 4x the resources and they're still losing money at quadruple the sales.  So agreeing to the split is right out.

From what we saw, quadrupling the sales would be easily done. Just look at how big the line still was when they ran out. And again, this is assuming they don't even try to haggle. The brothers could have set the split to 25/75 assuming the Apples would have done the smart business approach and haggled them down to what may have been more reasonable.
 

Quote

Then you add that integrity thing back in...  Making a quality product when things are going perfectly is easy.  The true mark of a maker of a quality product is that they will not let a bad product go out the door.  Inferior parts come in from your supplier?  A quality maker shuts down production until they can correct the issue.  People more concerned with profit than quality assurance use the parts they have since shutting things down is way too big of an expense.  With everything on the line, the Apples refused to budge on the quality of thier cider.  Flim and FLam filled theirs with dirt and rocks to win.  So what do you want to bet on the over-all quality of their machine?  Sure, it's working at the moment, but what about 2 weeks from now?

37 minutes ago, ABronyAccount said:

Yeah, what he said.

Also, AJ had the right strategy after all. She managed to sell cider that actually had buyers. They lost the competition, but the competition was ridiculous anyway and AJ correctly tried to stay out of it.

Furthermore, what would the Ponyville health inspectors say if Flim and Flam had stuck around and tried to sell a known tainted batch of cider, enticing ponies with below-cost prices?

Only from the very limited view of "producing the most barrels of cider-containing product" did the Apple family lose anything. But blindly and uncritically adhering to a single criterion is not the best for running a business, or really doing anything in life. AJ had the right approach that took into account more than a singular, easily-gamed metric. (In fact, I bet if you removed all the trees and rocks and dirt from the Flim Flam Bros.' output, the Apple Family probably produced more actual cider.)

 

Literally everything you both said here falls apart when you realise that by simply pressing a button, the quality goes back up to at least match, if not exceed, the hoof-made cider. Again, the contest was explicitly set to quantity - everything we saw of the machine before the contest shows that it works perfectly fine. Assuming it'll break down or stop producing quality cider later on is nothing but completely baseless speculation.

 

Quote

The brothers actually are con men here... What they have created is an automated process that costs way more than it should, making it of little practical value, and so they are using strong-arm tactics to try to leverage this machine for profit.  You can automate anything... That doesn't make it cost effective.  You say that the Apples "had to invite the rest of the mane 6, and have everyone pushing themselves to their absolute limit, to even attempt to keep up the pace of the machine"... That's not true.  With the help of the Mane Six (and with Twilight just counting and stacking barrels), the Apple family easily outpaced the machine at maximum production and quickly began to come from behind a huge deficit.  All of which exposed the fatal flaw in the machine... With the quality control on, production was capped... it simply could not go any faster.  With the quality control off, it produced garbage.  Hiring a handful of extra farmhands would equal what the Cider Squeezy could do at likely a tiny fraction of what the machine cost.  The machine was impressive, but impractical to the level of being pointless.

But...no. Look at the Apples and the mane 6 collapse in exhaustion after the contest. They were clearly being pushed to their limits. And again, the machine proved itself beyond doubt before the competition, and during it before the quality control was turned off. Everything we saw of it before then clearly showed that it produced equal quality cider at a far faster rate than the Apples could. Yes, with the quality control on, production was capped - but it was still capped at a much higher number than the Apples could produce, while keeping up with their level of quality.

Literally everyone would have turned out better off if the Apples had made a deal with the brothers - the Apples get the help they need and sell more product, the brothers are repaid for their hard work (they made a completely legitimate and working machine that does exactly as described - they are legitimate businessmen in this episode, which is why it frustrates me that they're painted as con artists), and the town gets the cider they so desperately want.

But nope, Applejack is "right all along".

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1 hour ago, Arix said:

But...no. Look at the Apples and the mane 6 collapse in exhaustion after the contest. They were clearly being pushed to their limits. And again, the machine proved itself beyond doubt before the competition, and during it before the quality control was turned off. Everything we saw of it before then clearly showed that it produced equal quality cider at a far faster rate than the Apples could. Yes, with the quality control on, production was capped - but it was still capped at a much higher number than the Apples could produce, while keeping up with their level of quality.

 

The Apples and friends all collapsed after AJ refused to reduce quality, so everyone worked their absolute hardest to try and beat the machine's output with the quality control *turned off*... When it was producing inedible barrels of crap.  Before that, when they were both making decent cider Twilight says they were outpacing the machine 5 barrels to every 3 it could make, and they were keeping that pace just fine.  

 

The point is the machine could never exceed that 3 barrel rate, while the extra farmhand option was scalable to whatever production level was needed.

 

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4 hours ago, Harwick said:

 

The Apples and friends all collapsed after AJ refused to reduce quality, so everyone worked their absolute hardest to try and beat the machine's output with the quality control *turned off*... When it was producing inedible barrels of crap.  Before that, when they were both making decent cider Twilight says they were outpacing the machine 5 barrels to every 3 it could make, and they were keeping that pace just fine.  

 

The point is the machine could never exceed that 3 barrel rate, while the extra farmhand option was scalable to whatever production level was needed.

 

Okay, sure. Let's go with that.

So why is help from the rest of the mane 6 okay when help from the bros' machine isn't? How was AJ "right all along" given everything else considered? The only point for her is "The bros turned off quality control in a quantity based competition" - that don't mean she's right about jack. The bros making a bad call doesn't erase those that AJ made.

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2 hours ago, Arix said:

Okay, sure. Let's go with that.So why is help from the rest of the mane 6 okay when help from the bros' machine isn't? How was AJ "right all along" given everything else considered?

Nobody said help from the machine was wrong. What was wrong about the Flim Flam Bros. was their approach and its lack of integrity from top to bottom. Not only did they try to foist a raw deal on their suppliers, they were also perfectly willing to drop any pretense of standards or quality in order to meet quotas.

To your second: Because she knew enough about business to stay in business when her competitors were focused on a myopic metric to the detriment of their business?

Seriously, stuff like this is how you get to Wells Fargo levels of fraud.

 

Quote

The only point for her is "The bros turned off quality control in a quantity based competition" - that don't mean she's right about jack.

Um, that was her entire argument from the start if you check the transcripts. She was right about not turning off quality control, as evidenced by the fact that the market overwhelmingly rejected the competition.

I'm honestly struggling to understand what your issue is here. Yes, they lost the contest. Nobody contests (ha!) that. But the contest itself was stupid, as AJ herself pointed out beforehand. AJ's entire schtick from the beginning of the episode was "quality over quantity." The brothers flim-flam took the opposite approach when faced with competition, and their approach proved to be inferior to AJ's because they wound up with no buyers at all. There was no demand for their product. There was always demand for Apple Family cider, even when they couldn't meet it.

Where's your beef?

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All this talk about cider, and I still wonder why they thought putting rocks in it was a good idea!

Anyways, when I watch the show I completely turn off my sensibility, like my brain just says "Okay, you're watching magical, pastel horses learning about friendship and arguably committing murder in some cases, don't sweat it" and I don't notice a whole lot of really, really, stupid things that they do.

Except for, you know, what Dark Qiviut pointed out. I think that was the only time I distinctly remember going "Wow, this character may be retarded!" in the show (and or movies!) Or, you know, it was the screaming of two friends commentating on the movie that went really made me remember it, same thing!

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3 hours ago, ABronyAccount said:

Nobody said help from the machine was wrong. What was wrong about the Flim Flam Bros. was their approach and its lack of integrity from top to bottom. Not only did they try to foist a raw deal on their suppliers, they were also perfectly willing to drop any pretense of standards or quality in order to meet quotas.

"Foist a raw deal on their suppliers"? They made a fair proposition - again, possibly with the thought of it being haggled over. There was no foisting, and certainly no raw deals. And yes, they dropped quality for quantity - during a contest that was all about quantity. That was the only time they let the quality slip. The one and only time. Before the contest, the quality was top-notch and the quantity was higher. Even at the start of the contest, they were still producing quality cider at high quantities. Only later, when they needed to increase quantity (again, to win a quantity-based contest) did they sacrifice quality. Yes, this was their moment of stupidity that I've been talking about from the start. Doesn't mean AJ was right about nuthin'.

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To your second: Because she knew enough about business to stay in business when her competitors were focused on a myopic metric to the detriment of their business?

Seriously, stuff like this is how you get to Wells Fargo levels of fraud.

 

"Business" what? This was not during the business at all, this was during a competition in which "most cider wins". Had the brothers not decided to serve up rocks straight after the competition, they would have perfectly high-quality cider to sell and the townspeople would have enjoyed it. This is clearly shown. This is obvious.
 

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Um, that was her entire argument from the start if you check the transcripts. She was right about not turning off quality control, as evidenced by the fact that the market overwhelmingly rejected the competition.

I'm honestly struggling to understand what your issue is here. Yes, they lost the contest. Nobody contests (ha!) that. But the contest itself was stupid, as AJ herself pointed out beforehand. AJ's entire schtick from the beginning of the episode was "quality over quantity." The brothers flim-flam took the opposite approach when faced with competition, and their approach proved to be inferior to AJ's because they wound up with no buyers at all. There was no demand for their product. There was always demand for Apple Family cider, even when they couldn't meet it.

Where's your beef?

 

Your whole point hinges on the idea that the competition = regular business, which it very clearly doesn't. If we take the competition as just that - a competition, not the process of a normal business day - then everything falls apart. In a regular business day, the machine produces high-quality cider in amounts that the Apples cannot match. The one and only time the quality fails is when it needed to be sacrificed for quantity during a competition - again, just a competition, not a regular business day. Separate the cider-producing contest from actual business and the brothers clearly win the day.

"Oh well what's to stop them turning off the quality control in a regular business day then?"
First of all, the lack of need to. They could easily produce enough to satisfy demand without sacrificing quality. Second of all, the fact that what they were offering was a partnership with the Apples - meaning the Apples would still be involved with the process. And, like I said earlier, the Apples had all the power. If the brothers wanted to do something the Apples didn't like, like sacrificing quality control, the Apples could say a fine good day and send them packing, returning to business as usual.

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"Foist a raw deal on their suppliers"? They made a fair proposition - again, possibly with the thought of it being haggled over. There was no foisting, and certainly no raw deals.

Okay stop right there.

1) It's the income from the cider sales that keep the farm going until the next season. Taking 3/4 of that is ruinous.

2) There was no negotiation once the Apples refused the 75/25 split. The brothers went straight into competition.

http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Transcripts/The_Super_Speedy_Cider_Squeezy_6000

Please just step back and let go for a bit. You're being a little ridiculous.

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On 9/18/2016 at 11:32 PM, Metemponychosis said:

This is going to be a long one.

.....

[Well thought out input]

.....

Impressive! Well done! :)

 

I don't know about "dumbest" moment, but I watched "Suited for Success" this morning and I'm always confused by a few scenes. For instance, when Twi is telling Rarity how she wants her belt, she tells her "Orion has three stars on his belt, not four!" ...The belt hadn't been made yet, why is she telling Rarity "not four"? Just tell her you want three stars on your belt, Twi! Perhaps that's just another example of how socially underdeveloped Twi is. What gets me most, though, is when Fluttershy shows Rarity a sketch of a fancy gown and says "French Haute Couture, please". But her finished dress not only is far from Haute Couture, but it looks absolutely nothing like the sketch. What on earth happened..? You'd think Fluttershy's self-designed dress might be the only one that still turned out beautiful. It just makes no sense to me.

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1 hour ago, Dublyn Tea said:

I don't know about "dumbest" moment, but I watched "Suited for Success" this morning and I'm always confused by a few scenes. For instance, when Twi is telling Rarity how she wants her belt, she tells her "Orion has three stars on his belt, not four!" ...The belt hadn't been made yet, why is she telling Rarity "not four"? Just tell her you want three stars on your belt, Twi! Perhaps that's just another example of how socially underdeveloped Twi is. What gets me most, though, is when Fluttershy shows Rarity a sketch of a fancy gown and says "French Haute Couture, please". But her finished dress not only is far from Haute Couture, but it looks absolutely nothing like the sketch. What on earth happened..? You'd think Fluttershy's self-designed dress might be the only one that still turned out beautiful. It just makes no sense to me.

Funny you mention it because I thought of it no later than yesterday!

I may have a hypothesis, not a fantastic one but... Well here what I was thinking: When Fluttershy said why she doesn't both like and love the dress (^^), she mentionned a few things like "the hems are clearly machine-stitched, the fabric looks like toile, you used a backstitch here when it clearly called for a topstitch or maybe a traditional blancket stitch, and the overdesign is reminiscient of prêt-à-porter and not true French haute couture" (btw, as a French myself, I always get excited when ponies speak french xD)

She was speaking about how Rarity sewed things. So maybe when she showed the sketch, she only wanted to highlight a certain other way to put the pieces of her dress together?

Or maybe this sketch wasn't suppose to be her dress at all at all but it was an ancient sketch of Rarity (or somepony else) that Fluttershy loved?

 

 

About other dump moments, here's the ones that really grinds my gears:

S1E11 Winter wrap up: Twilight asked to RD if she could help her with "clear up the clouds". She forgot she doesn't have wings or what Oo ?

S1E22 A bird in the hoof: Princess Celestia who says that her bird was "beautiful". Well yes, she is when she's not old and sick --" And then she add "I take care of all my subjects" etc etc... Couldn't you just said to Fluttershy it was a phoenix instead?

S2E4 Luna eclipsed : Pinkie Pie hurts Luna's feelings just because being scared is fun. :/ There's nothing to add

S5E19 The one where pinkie pie knows: I'm sorry I hate this episode so maybe I'll be a little unpleasant xD But first of all Pinkie Pie is THE secret keeper of all of Ponyville. Remember "Green isn't you color" (s1E20) ? So why in the world she's so stressed about this secret now? I know it's a wonderful thing, but still...

S6E6 No second prances: You're the princess of friendship Twily! You even forgive Discord and befriend with him! I dunno, she disappointed me T-T

@Metemponychosis sorry I steal your way to say things ^^ 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Aiadeva said:

S1E22 A bird in the hoof: Princess Celestia who says that her bird was "beautiful". Well yes, she is when she's not old and sick --" And then she add "I take care of all my subjects" etc etc... Couldn't you just said to Fluttershy it was a phoenix instead?

I think there's a logical explanation for this.  By this time Twilight has told Celestia all about her friends, and Celestia knows Fluttershy is an animal lover (probably why she brought Philomena to begin with).  I think Celestia assumed that a pony that knew about Dragons, Manticores, Cockatrice, etc  would know what a Phoenix is.  Her "she's quite a sight..." was likely her trying to share an inside joke that she thought Fluttershy would get. 

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8 hours ago, ABronyAccount said:

Okay stop right there.

1) It's the income from the cider sales that keep the farm going until the next season. Taking 3/4 of that is ruinous.

As I said, if the help from the machine at least quadruples sales, something very possible from what we saw, they break even on profits and gain on customer relations. Any more than that and they benefit more. And if by some chance it turns out that it can't do that, well like I've said, the Apples have all the power to walk out.

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2) There was no negotiation once the Apples refused the 75/25 split. The brothers went straight into competition.

That's because the Apples outright refused. They didn't make a counteroffer. They just went "No deal". Haggling isn't about lowering your offer every time they refuse until you get to something they accept. It was on the Apples to make a counteroffer.

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http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Transcripts/The_Super_Speedy_Cider_Squeezy_6000

Please just step back and let go for a bit. You're being a little ridiculous.

Dude, no need to start taking offense and name-calling. I'm just stating my opinion in an opinion-based thread, backing it up with the facts as I see them, and you've said nothing to change my mind about it.

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14 minutes ago, Arix said:

As I said, if the help from the machine at least quadruples sales, something very possible from what we saw, they break even on profits and gain on customer relations. Any more than that and they benefit more. And if by some chance it turns out that it can't do that, well like I've said, the Apples have all the power to walk out.

You're assuming they could quadruple sales. Might not be the case. And if not, can the Apples "walk out" without going bust before next season?

 

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That's because the Apples outright refused. They didn't make a counteroffer. They just went "No deal". Haggling isn't about lowering your offer every time they refuse until you get to something they accept. It was on the Apples to make a counteroffer.

If you intend to haggle and your first, intentionally high-balled offer is refused, that's when you make a lower bid. The brothers went straight from "we keep most of the revenue" to "we'll run you out of business." They didn't have any interest in offering a better deal.

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Dude, no need to start taking offense and name-calling. I'm just stating my opinion in an opinion-based thread, backing it up with the facts as I see them, and you've said nothing to change my mind about it.

I'm not calling names or taking offense.

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5 hours ago, ABronyAccount said:

You're assuming they could quadruple sales. Might not be the case. And if not, can the Apples "walk out" without going bust before next season?

Yeah, I am. And I believe, from what we saw, that it's a perfectly fair and reasonable assumption.

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If you intend to haggle and your first, intentionally high-balled offer is refused, that's when you make a lower bid. The brothers went straight from "we keep most of the revenue" to "we'll run you out of business." They didn't have any interest in offering a better deal.

Okay, fair point. But that's only partly on the brothers. The Apples themselves were clearly not interested in making a counteroffer. As I said, you don't haggle or negotiate by making progressively lower offers until the other party accepts.

Buuut at this point it looks like we're just going in circles. You've said nothing to convince me and I've clearly said nothing to convince you, and I don't think either of us are going to. What's say we shake hands and accept?

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2 hours ago, Arix said:

Okay, fair point. But that's only partly on the brothers. The Apples themselves were clearly not interested in making a counteroffer. As I said, you don't haggle or negotiate by making progressively lower offers until the other party accepts.

Then I'm confused as to why you first suggested they intentionally set the bar too high in hopes of negotiating a lower but still beneficial deal for themselves. You know, "haggling." (Despite your second sentence, that is exactly the definition and common practice of haggling. In a market where haggling over price is the norm, the seller always starts out too high; in business deals you usually overshoot first and negotiate lower.) It's clear from the transcript that this was their only offer, not a hypothetical "bid high and work down" approach. And not only was this a "take or leave it" deal, this was a "take it or we'll destroy your entire livelihood" deal.

I'm sure we'll be able to come a "disagree agreement" at some point, I'm just not sure we need to abandon the discussion yet. What I'm trying to do is get at a few points where we disagree and hash them out, working on our different assumptions and takes to see if either one (or somebody else's) has better support. What I find is that a lot of times when people have a hot-button issue with an episode, it's based around a set of assumptions that may not apply.

For instance, I happen to think that Feeling Pinkie Keen was an excellent example of skepticism in action rather than a thinly-disguised Chick Tract about abandoning reason and going on faith, like a lot of people mistakenly believed.

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