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S6 - episode 26 - Discussion (US airing October 22)

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Just now, StarlightGlimmer said:

They are just the best along with Discord 

The Discord needling Trixie bits were hilarious.

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Dawns on me that Celestia and Luna have now been defeated, captured, or otherwise proven to be totally useless in every single 2-part finale this show has done.

 

It's sad that the outdated "damsel in distress" trope lives on in this show.  Especially when there was an entire episode dedicated to mocking the damsel in distress trope. 

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48 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Dawns on me that Celestia and Luna have now been defeated, captured, or otherwise proven to be totally useless in every single 2-part finale this show has done.

 

It's sad that the outdated "damsel in distress" trope lives on in this show.  Especially when there was an entire episode dedicated to mocking the damsel in distress trope. 

Well, Luna wasn't useless on this one. She managed to use her power to warn Starlight Glimmer. That was something that only she could've done. Not very impressive, I know, but she did it.

 

To me it's not even the idea itself that is the problem. It's that the cartoon keeps trying to do something that is just out of it's reach. It can't use characters like Celestia and Luna (and even Discord) in this sort of story without ruining them in the process. It was made for slice of life stories where ponies are worried about what dress they'll use in the gala. Not to defend a country from a threat like the evil-dark-bad of the season.

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Luna got dragged away by a single drone.  I don't think it's particularly impressive that she managed to get past one drone to deliver a dream message.  Not to mention the message was pointless, as Thorax was delivering the needed exposition right afterwards anyways.

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Luna was, in theory, struggling to get her magic through an anti-magic field when she delivered that message, and that drone was coming into the dreamworld to do it. I wouldn't say she was at full power nor was that a standard drone.

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6 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Luna got dragged away by a single drone.  I don't think it's particularly impressive that she managed to get past one drone to deliver a dream message.  Not to mention the message was pointless, as Thorax was delivering the needed exposition right afterwards anyways.

Don't get me wrong. This episode was one of the most pathetic things I've seen as far as Luna and Celestia are related. And you're right, Thorax did exactly that. But it's bad writing. Luna, by herself, managed to do something. It's better than Celestia.

 

Did they say that it was one single drone? Damn... I feel bad for these characters.

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1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

No, but you only see one single drone drag Luna out of the dream. 

It was so fast I didn't even see what had happened there.

By the way, how the hell does that even work? Man... The more I think about this episode the less I like it.

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Because Celestia and Luna getting worfed has become so commonplace and routine that the writers no longer feel obligated to even try to explain how it happened. 

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27 minutes ago, Steamworks said:

Luna was, in theory, struggling to get her magic through an anti-magic field when she delivered that message, and that drone was coming into the dreamworld to do it. I wouldn't say she was at full power nor was that a standard drone.

Yeah. But in Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep we have this little piece of conversation...

Quote

Twilight Sparkle: Speaking of princesses, aren't you gonna ask Celestia for her help as well?

Princess Luna: There is nothing my sister can do. She has no power in the realm of sleep. Only I can move from dream to dream. I am afraid nopony can help me tonight.

So how the hell does Changeling #171 pulls that off?

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I don't know the how, but you can't deny that he was in the friggin' dreamworld with Luna and Starlight. He's right there on screen in it. Maybe he was projecting into Luna's mind and hitching a ride on her magic.

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1 hour ago, Metemponychosis said:

Don't get me wrong. This episode was one of the most pathetic things I've seen as far as Luna and Celestia are related. And you're right, Thorax did exactly that. But it's bad writing. Luna, by herself, managed to do something. It's better than Celestia.

 

Did they say that it was one single drone? Damn... I feel bad for these characters.

 

It doesn't help that Luna hasn't been relevant to the plot since the first half of Season 5 and Celestia hasn't been relevant since, what, the end of Season 4 at the latest?

 

I can see a more quest based MLP work, but they need to find a way to better integrate the slice-of-life elements with the new quest elements. The way it is, it comes across like the writers wanted to adopt a plot structure in the vein of, say, Cowboy Bebop, without understanding how such a structure works. 

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25 minutes ago, WaterPulse said:

 

It doesn't help that Luna hasn't been relevant to the plot since the first half of Season 5 and Celestia hasn't been relevant since, what, the end of Season 4 at the latest?

 

I can see a more quest based MLP work, but they need to find a way to better integrate the slice-of-life elements with the new quest elements. The way it is, it comes across like the writers wanted to adopt a plot structure in the vein of, say, Cowboy Bebop, without understanding how such a structure works. 

Depends on how you define relevant. Celestia was never relevant as a character after a certain point, all she does is set up the stage for other characters. I don't think that she's ever had an unique importance in an story after season 3 (And I'm being generous because I'm counting sending Twilight to the Crystal Empire).

 

Celestia was one of the more important characters in the beginning. She looked like she was important. She was around, making sure things were going as planned. She was the mother that whatched over the little ponies. Then the cnildren grew up... I always say that mlp has grown with Twilight, the world has become bigger with characters like Twilight's friends, Luna, Cadance and Twilight growing together while Celestia was left forgotten in the background and now she's like a prop that gets in the way every now and then. This is a sign of a staff that doesn't care about the fictional world they create.

 

Whenever Celestia does anything now it's always to serve the plot and never feels organic. She doesn't seem to have motivations or agency. Though she was important in The Crystaling, that was the best episode for her to show off her age and knowledge but she was shoved aside so that Sunburst could suddenly be useful. 

 

The problem with Celestia in my opinion is that she doesn't occupy a definite niche in the universe that the staff has competency to explore. Her presence is always ethereal and she ends up not doing anything or stepping aside while characters make their own stories happen. She's the adult in the kid's movie. They should've given her something more than "kinda ruler and mover of the sun", like they did with Luna, because those don't have a chance of being relevant in anything the show is likely to deal with.

 

Mlp is just bad when it tries to tell a story more complex than Applejack lied. This season's finale is emblematic. Typical of a commissioned story when the writer doesn't care. Things happen without rhyme or reason, excusing the writer from following the narrative paradigm (AKA: a bunch of asspulls) in order to reach a conclusion: these popular characters go save the day and changelings get reformed. This is because mlp isn't story-driven. It's not trying to tell a story about Equestria. The world is just a background where characters do their thing. You can  see it clearly in how the interactions between the characters are stellar, but the premisse is so flawed the episode shouldn't be happening.

 

This works fine when Rarity wants a new shop somewhere, but falls apart when the story tries to reach for an overarching tale that just isn't there. The whole story happens detached from the world and seems completely souless as you could replace any character for any other and it wouldn't make a difference and problems with the narrative are too many to count.

 

I feel like an old man ranting about how things were better in the past though they really weren't that good. I'm gonna go get started on my fanwank fic about how my OC married Celestia. Statlight Glimmer and Thorax have set the bar that low. Might even throw in a red and black alicorn for good measure.

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I Like Changelings The Way They Were.

That's it. I believe the season's finale was very good, but i'd like it more if changelings  stayed the way they were, or perhaps with only minor changes...

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Not everyone watched the early UK broadcast.

You should just talk about it in the episode thread until after it airs in the US.  That thread title is super spoilery.

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I agree with all of you. But... It wasn't that bad :c Personnaly when Thorax came to the crystal empire and said eventually he'll come back to his kingdom to help the others changelings to share love, I foreseen something like that.

 

A final should be the accomplishment of all the caracters have done during the season and we have all of it! We have a Discord that I'm sure he would have help -even if Fluttershy wasn't involved (He pops up in a time of crisis. The Fluttershy business just accelerate things in my opinion)  . We have a Starlight that used what she learned with Twilight to help save the day. We have Trixie who want to help her very new friend, and we have Thorax who's trying to do whatever he can to save the day too.

Plus, all of the caracters learned something about friendship at the end.

 

Yeah sure the princesses were easily captured and were useless, but if you forget about it, the episode was pretty good for a final and I enjoyed it. I'll just keep hoping to see the mane7 in the next season ^^"

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Tbh I havnt seen the newest forms yet (mainly because Ive been trying to catch up, currently on season 2), but I think they'll look interesting.

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Yeah, i guess there could be some rebel changelings to stay "unchanged", like some anti-Thorax. He, he.

 

Quote

 

Not everyone watched the early UK broadcast.

You should just talk about it in the episode thread until after it airs in the US.  That thread title is super spoilery

 

.

I added some tags to the post so people who want to avoid spoilers stay away from this conversation.

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Quite honestly though they're right- you could have easily kept this in the S6E26 discussion thread rather then making it into its own. In any case, do what I'm going to do: THAT EPISODE DOESN'T EXIST.

In any case, asked for a thread merge, it's spoiling it for those who don't want spoilers a little bit by the title/tag and there's no reason to do so.

Edited by recentteen14
Asked for a thread merge

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I really enjoyed this episode. We got new lore (how Chrysalis' throne absorbs magic), and we get to see new places (the Changeling Hive). Discord always makes things fun, and his antics here are terrific, as he is forced to work without his magic. Trixie cracks me up as usual, and we do see that while she's not a bad pony, she's not what you'd call a really *good* pony either. Trixie looks out for Trixie, and Starlight, since Starlight is her best friend. I like seeing Trixie grow like that, and figure down the line she'll become more true good than grey area. Also, I laughed my ass off at her mumblings during the scene where Starlight arrives to wake her up.

We get to see Thorax expand on his dimension just a bit, and we find out how deep his friendship with Spike actually goes. He loves Spike, and I'd wager Spike loves him, and it's so very sweet. Of course, Starlight herself has worked to apply her hard won friendship lessons, and it leads us to the climax where we finally discover just where the Changelings went wrong.

This part was the best part for me, because we gained even more new lore. Apparently, changelings don't look like black husks with blue eyes, but are actually quite beautiful creatures. Anypony with greater lore knowledge may remember the changelings being known as the Flutterponies. It's mostly muddled lore, but it exists, and now is a part of MLP:FIM canon. The changelings are actually quite lovely when they're giving love freely, and giving love erases the hunger in their hearts, so that the changelings are no longer evil, and Thorax becomes their leader! I loved the reunification scenes during this moment. This whole scene was also enjoyable because I was completely surprised and still reeling by what happened to the Changelings. Did you notice they no longer had holes in their bodies? I did!

Of course, this was also a chance for Chrysalis to repent and come to know good by befriending Starlight, but at the last second, she rejects the offer and flees. I'm okay with this, as it seems clear while the other changelings were just drones and embittered by years of withholding love from themselves and others, Chrysalis truly is evil. She should stay that way for at least a while longer yet. Plus, it gives us another enemy for season 7, possibly.

I think this was a strong season finale with a strong moral lesson (don't withhold love as it only hurts you, not the other pony), with solid characterizations. It's the first season finale I've ever seen without the Mane Six as the leads, so I'm kind of curious where this will lead into the next season. After all, Starlight keeps getting called a leader, and that she can lead, and I know this is going to go somewhere big.

Also, regarding Starlight Glimmer, I knew I felt good about her when I saw her trembling in fear, and covering her head with her hooves, back at Our Town. It was at that moment I had absolutely no doubt she had truly changed. While I have long since grown warm to her, this episode made me fond of her. Good job, Starlight. :)

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