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Starlight Glimmer is not OP

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Starlight Glimmer is not OP. 

One criticism I have heard about Starlight Glimmer is that she is too powerful magic wise. However, when looking back at unicorn Twilight I just don't see it. Twilight was able to pick up an Ursa Minor with telekinesis, used the "Want-It-Need-It" spell as a form of mind control to make ponies fall in love with a doll, and accidentally turned a frog into an orange. I'm not seeing anything different from Starlight besides self-levitate. So how is Starlight OP? 

 


 

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19 minutes ago, DawnInPonyville said:

Starlight Glimmer is not OP. 

One criticism I have heard about Starlight Glimmer is that she is too powerful magic wise. However, when looking back at unicorn Twilight I just don't see it. Twilight was able to pick up an Ursa Minor with telekinesis, used the "Want-It-Need-It" spell as a form of mind control to make ponies fall in love with a doll, and accidentally turned a frog into an orange. I'm not seeing anything different from Starlight besides self-levitate. So how is Starlight OP? 

 


 

Well...she also created a spell to remove Cutie Marks, finished Starswirl's spell with relative ease as seen from her attitude, fought Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn as a Unicorn to the stand-off...Also note that most Unicorns develop magic around their talents. Twilight's talent WAS magic. What of Starlight? Unless they make her an Alicorn in next seasons (which is an overkill), I sense the second coming of Starswirl the Bearded, an allpowerful Unicorn.
But yeah, she's not OP, just powerful.

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1 minute ago, Ebon Scar said:

Well...she also created a spell to remove Cutie Marks, finished Starswirl's spell with relative ease as seen from her attitude, fought Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn as a Unicorn to the stand-off...Also note that most Unicorns develop magic around their talents. Twilight's talent WAS magic. What of Starlight? Unless they make her an Alicorn in next seasons (which is an overkill), I sense the second coming of Starswirl the Bearded, an allpowerful Unicorn.
But yeah, she's not OP, just powerful.

Pretty much this. She's done a LOT for a simple unicorn, much that in the short time we've known her that she's done many magical feats that many could make early seasons Twilight jealous. (I remember arguing with someone else early on about whether self levitation for unicorns was possible in the mainstream. It was proven possible by one of the cake twins - but she was a young foal with magic surges that let her bend dimensions. And then Starlight cements it)

 

So basically S. Glimmer's powerful, especially in combat/utility spells, but she has many apparent flaws too. I personally like what they've done with her so far, but understand that some don't view her as I do. But either way, you can expect some great things with her.

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36 minutes ago, Ebon Scar said:

Well...she also created a spell to remove Cutie Marks, finished Starswirl's spell with relative ease as seen from her attitude, fought Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn as a Unicorn to the stand-off...Also note that most Unicorns develop magic around their talents. Twilight's talent WAS magic. What of Starlight? Unless they make her an Alicorn in next seasons (which is an overkill), I sense the second coming of Starswirl the Bearded, an allpowerful Unicorn.
But yeah, she's not OP, just powerful.

 

The Cutie Mark removal power I will admit is very powerful, but I'm not sure about Starswirl's spell because we don't know if she studied some notes or pulled a Magical Mystery Cure or something. As for alicorn vs, unicorn, I never got the feeling that there was a major power increase from unicorn Twilight to alicorn Twilight. 

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4 minutes ago, DawnInPonyville said:

 

The Cutie Mark removal power I will admit is very powerful, but I'm not sure about Starswirl's spell because we don't know if she studied some notes or pulled a Magical Mystery Cure or something. As for alicorn vs, unicorn, I never got the feeling that there was a major power increase from unicorn Twilight to alicorn Twilight. 

Actually no, it was an imperfect Time Travel spell that Twilight used prior. Starswirl couldn't finish it, but Starlight did. And it was a pretty impressive task, as was noted in the show. Twilight sorta became an Alicorn for finishing one such spell (because I'm not buying it otherwise. How can one become an Alicorn for fixing a mess they created? ^ ^"). And Twilight's transition into an Alicorn is...I think the show simply fails to properly represent this transition. Or Alicorns in general. They are supposed to be quite powerful, yet so far in any major event all Alicorns go down pretty fast. ^ ^"

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12 minutes ago, Ebon Scar said:

Actually no, it was an imperfect Time Travel spell that Twilight used prior. Starswirl couldn't finish it, but Starlight did. And it was a pretty impressive task, as was noted in the show. Twilight sorta became an Alicorn for finishing one such spell (because I'm not buying it otherwise. How can one become an Alicorn for fixing a mess they created? ^ ^"). And Twilight's transition into an Alicorn is...I think the show simply fails to properly represent this transition. Or Alicorns in general. They are supposed to be quite powerful, yet so far in any major event all Alicorns go down pretty fast. ^ ^"

That's cause of show's heavy and lazy usage of the Worfing syndrome where they need to whack any perceived powerful character with the nerf bat to make said villain look impressive. Unfortunately the show has done it so many times that now nobody is impressed a villain beat an alicorn now.

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2 hours ago, DawnInPonyville said:

Starlight Glimmer is not OP. 

One criticism I have heard about Starlight Glimmer is that she is too powerful magic wise. However, when looking back at unicorn Twilight I just don't see it. Twilight was able to pick up an Ursa Minor with telekinesis, used the "Want-It-Need-It" spell as a form of mind control to make ponies fall in love with a doll, and accidentally turned a frog into an orange. I'm not seeing anything different from Starlight besides self-levitate. So how is Starlight OP? 

 


 

As far as I'm concerned, the problem with her isn't that she's too powerful thsi is arbitrary and everyone will have a different threshold that shouldn't be crossed. The problem is that the cartoon did an awful job of justifying everything about her. There is a void of nothingness about her past between "I lost my friend" and "I'll conquer Equestria a cutie mark a time, I can mind-rape ponies, tore away their talents/destinies, and all the stuff that I can do". While in Twilight's case, there is the idea that she spent her childhood studying at a prestiged institution that teaches magic. Also, Twilight messed with things she shouldn't have because she was panicking, while Starlight Glimmer was in perfect control of her faculties and knew exactly what she was doing. This just made her unlikable to me. It doesn't help that all the characters that I love got the axe so that she could shine.

 

Starlight Glimmer is a good idea that got ruined by a lazy execution.

 

EDIT: In fact, I'd go as far as saying that Moondancer is a better Starlight Glimmer because she had a more level character arc that didn't get blown to epic proportions for petty reasons.

Edited by Metemponychosis
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To be honest, Starlight Glimmer doesn't doesn't use her magic very effectively, at least not compared to the way that a playable character in a video game might use it.

It's the same with Twilight.

If they were both characters in video games you'd see them tearing through the scenery with magical blasts and teleporting all over the place. We get a couple of small samples of that but that's about it. You'd expect a powerful character like that to be like Starkiller in Force Unleashed, yet she's more like a Jedi from Episode 4.

For example, in Feeling Pinkie Keen Twilight doesn't even think to blast the hydra, or to teleport away from it and at no time does she ever use her telekinesis to levitate herself when even one of the Cake twins does that.

Starlight might have powerful magic, but she doesn't think like a powerful character. Or at least the writers don't really treat her like one.

It's the same with Celestia and Luna. The amount of magic that Luna would need to raise and lower the moon should allow her to pick up a mountain and drop it on somebody. Yet she seems to be totally unaware of how to use her magic effectively.

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2 minutes ago, Aaargh Zombies said:

To be honest, Starlight Glimmer doesn't doesn't use her magic very effectively, at least not compared to the way that a playable character in a video game might use it.

It's the same with Twilight.

If they were both characters in video games you'd see them tearing through the scenery with magical blasts and teleporting all over the place. We get a couple of small samples of that but that's about it. You'd expect a powerful character like that to be like Starkiller in Force Unleashed, yet she's more like a Jedi from Episode 4.

For example, in Feeling Pinkie Keen Twilight doesn't even think to blast the hydra, or to teleport away from it and at no time does she ever use her telekinesis to levitate herself when even one of the Cake twins does that.

Starlight might have powerful magic, but she doesn't think like a powerful character. Or at least the writers don't really treat her like one.

It's the same with Celestia and Luna. The amount of magic that Luna would need to raise and lower the moon should allow her to pick up a mountain and drop it on somebody. Yet she seems to be totally unaware of how to use her magic effectively.

Yeah. Don't forget whole cast of powerful characters getting captured in the last episodes of the season by Changelings. I'd say it's a bummer, a lot of wasted potential. Gonna wait for Magic is Epic for my dose of flashy action.

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17 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

Starlight Glimmer is a good idea that got ruined by a lazy execution.

It's nothing personal, but it bugs me when people say that something is "lazy". Lazy writing, lazy execution, and so on.

I think that what you really mean to say is that you're unhappy with the level of detail that was put into giving her a backstory, and that you would have liked more screen time devoted to fleshing out her past and her motivations. Yes?

speaking in general, and not with your comment exclusively in mind we should be realistic in our expectations. Starlight was likely written with the idea that she might only be a one time character. If she didn't play well with audiences they could simply dispose of her and have a different season finale (They likely had several scripts to or variations on that one script). She'd vanish and be just another plot hole\loose end. As it was she was popular enough to return for the finale, but she might not have.

Starlight's past was left a total mystery at first, which suited the episode. The whole Map thing was new and mysterious. So we couldn't have it just direct them to a fully fleshed out villain. It left things open for future expansion. Do we want to know her past, or are we more interested in what she is doing now?

Then we had a short and clear flashback scene for her past right at the end of the season. This is actually about as much exposition as we need. Any more and it would have seemed forced. Do audiences really want to spend 5 minutes of a 20 minute episode hearing about a villain's backstory?

If we compare this to other characters ... say Twilight ... Starlight is actually dealt with in some detail. We barely know anything about Twilight for most of the first 4 seasons, and a lot of what we do know is either head-canon or was said off screen by the cast and crew. We get that one scene from Cutie Mark Chronicles but that's 23 episodes into the show. Her background is left almost entirely to our imaginations as are her motivations and most details of her personal life. There is amazingly little actually openly said about her. It's not like she's an anime character where the spend the first 3 episodes showing her going about her daily life and interacting with her family at home.

Equally, if we compare Starlight to other villains from children's cartoons she's not unusual. Most civilians only get backstory through narration or exposition.

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36 minutes ago, Ebon Scar said:

Yeah. Don't forget whole cast of powerful characters getting captured in the last episodes of the season by Changelings. I'd say it's a bummer, a lot of wasted potential. Gonna wait for Magic is Epic for my dose of flashy action.

That's pretty par for the course for a cartoon. Like Discord's vines capturing Celestia and Luna in Princess Twilight. They were literally just snatched up without a fight. I don't like it, but it suited the story.

My head canon is that powerful characters like Celestia and Luna need to actively put up some kind of defense. It's not just there by default. So if you sneak up behind them and smack them across the back of the head with a sock filled with sand, then they go down just like anypony else.

We saw that in the comics when Sombra got the jump on Celestia and took her out with one blast. She wasn't prepared so she had no defense.

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She is incredibly overpowered.  It would have made far more sense had she been using some magic relic, than to just personally have the power to remove cutie marks.

But that was just one thing.  Then you have the S5 finale where she's standing toe to toe with an Alicorn.  That was just silly, and another case of the show doing something just for the spectacle, and not by thinking things out.  Since she was changing time, logical thing would have been to de-alicorn Twilight for the episode due to the time changes.  Then at least they're on more (appearance wise) equal footing. 

 

We saw that in the comics when Sombra got the jump on Celestia and took her out with one blast. She wasn't prepared so she had no defense.

 

Now THAT was lazy writing.  Celestia and Luna showed up in that arc for one page just to be defeated.  There was absolutely no reason to even have them in that story.  Cadance had only just tried to contact them, and the story was shorty (time wise) to say all the events passed before they got there. There wasn't some tie in to the Reflections arc that made Celestia's presence something that could have made for a story, that was totally ignored in the arc.  But just like with the show, the writer felt that cheap drama needs to be built by worfing the Royal Sisters. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Aaargh Zombies said:

That's pretty par for the course for a cartoon. Like Discord's vines capturing Celestia and Luna in Princess Twilight. They were literally just snatched up without a fight. I don't like it, but it suited the story.

My head canon is that powerful characters like Celestia and Luna need to actively put up some kind of defense. It's not just there by default. So if you sneak up behind them and smack them across the back of the head with a sock filled with sand, then they go down just like anypony else.

We saw that in the comics when Sombra got the jump on Celestia and took her out with one blast. She wasn't prepared so she had no defense.

I was thinking...perhaps we're overesimating Alicorns in general. The best display of magical power we had was when Tirek ran wild. And it was possible with 4 Alicorn magics combined in Twilight. Counted Twilight's as 4'th. So perhaps what we expect is just beyond them altogether?

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5 minutes ago, Ebon Scar said:

I was thinking...perhaps we're overesimating Alicorns in general. The best display of magical power we had was when Tirek ran wild. And it was possible with 4 Alicorn magics combined in Twilight. Counted Twilight's as 4'th. So perhaps what we expect is just beyond them altogether?

It's inconsistent writing. 

Sombra was presented in "The Crystal Empire" as regional threat.  Celestia and Luna didn't even need the Elements.  Suddenly he's mounting a threat to Equestira in an alternate time line (though admittedly, time travel by it's very nature is stupid, so every alternate timeline making no logical sense isn't surprising.  I can forgive it).

 

Same with Tirek.  No elements were needed to defeat him.  Celestia and Luna don't confront Tirek when he's weak for no other reason than that Meghan wanted a big stupid fight in the final act. 

Chrysalis needed to be super-charged with more love power than she ever had before in order to take out Celestia (and Chrysalis was as surprised as anyone that she won).  The mane 6 tear throw hoards of drones like a hot knife through butter.  Now all the Princesses and Mane 6 can be taken out by a few drones without any problem. 

 

It's a reason I really don't care much for the 2 part episodes of this show anymore.  The writers have long since decided to put spectacle over substance.

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10 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

She is incredibly overpowered.  It would have made far more sense had she been using some magic relic, than to just personally have the power to remove cutie marks.But that was just one thing.  Then you have the S5 finale where she's standing toe to toe with an Alicorn.  That was just silly, and another case of the show doing something just for the spectacle, and not by thinking things out.  Since she was changing time, logical thing would have been to de-alicorn Twilight for the episode due to the time changes.  Then at least they're on more (appearance wise) equal footing. 

1) She wasn't over powered, she was simply well prepared. The spell meant that she always got there ahead of Twilight and could be ready and waiting for her. If we look at the sequence of events we see her attacking in one time jump and then Twilight countering in the next. Twilight is simply on the back hoof all the time. Twilight also isn't a fighter. She's rarely does more than a basic horn blast or shield. Look at Magic Duel, she did tried to out spell Trixie, rather than attack her.

2) There's nothing in series or comic canon to suggest that Twilight's powers changed when she became an Alicorn. She just grew wings.

We're simply seeing a well prepared unicorn with a levitation spell fighting against an unprepared unicorn with wings. I really don't think that Starlight can be called over powered, and more than Dash can be considered over powered.

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2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

It's inconsistent writing. 

Sombra was presented in "The Crystal Empire" as regional threat.  Celestia and Luna didn't even need the Elements. 

 

Same with Tirek.  No elements were needed to defeat him.  Suddenly, Sombra can mount a threat to Equestria in one of the silly alternate time lines.   Celestia and Luna don't confront Tirek when he's weak for no other reason than that they want a big stupid fight in the final act. 

Chrysalis needed to be super-charged with more love power than she ever had before in order to take out Celestia (and Chrysalis was as surprised as anyone that she won).  The mane 6 tear throw hoards of drones like a hot knife through butter.  Now all the Princesses and Mane 6 can be taken out by a few drones without any problem. 

 

It's a reason I really don't care much for the 2 part episodes of this show anymore.  The writers have long since decided to put spectacle over substance.

Well, Sombra was a threat in alternative timeline because Luna was absent, most likely re-imprisoned since nobody reformed her.

Tirek was weak and hard to trace so they signed up Discord to find him. But when Discord turned traitor, they couldn't stand up to him, even if Tirek was still weak. Remember that Celestia AND Luna couldn't handle Discord without Elements, and at the time Elements were gone. So they went on to hide their (clearly not so impressive) Alicorn powers.

Now Changelings situation leaves me at a loss. I can't really find justification as to why ALL big characters got captured so easily other than "plot".

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2 minutes ago, Aaargh Zombies said:

1) She wasn't over powered, she was simply well prepared. The spell meant that she always got there ahead of Twilight and could be ready and waiting for her. If we look at the sequence of events we see her attacking in one time jump and then Twilight countering in the next. Twilight is simply on the back hoof all the time. Twilight also isn't a fighter. She's rarely does more than a basic horn blast or shield. Look at Magic Duel, she did tried to out spell Trixie, rather than attack her.

2) There's nothing in series or comic canon to suggest that Twilight's powers changed when she became an Alicorn. She just grew wings.

We're simply seeing a well prepared unicorn with a levitation spell fighting against an unprepared unicorn with wings. I really don't think that Starlight can be called over powered, and more than Dash can be considered over powered.

I still think Alicorn HAS to have some sort of magical boost. Maybe not ginormous. Maybe it's like getting a new class in MMO and thus unlocking level cap to become even more powerful as time goes on. ^ ^"

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12 minutes ago, Ebon Scar said:

I was thinking...perhaps we're overesimating Alicorns in general. The best display of magical power we had was when Tirek ran wild. And it was possible with 4 Alicorn magics combined in Twilight. Counted Twilight's as 4'th. So perhaps what we expect is just beyond them altogether?

The fandom has been doing this since day 1.

If we go back to some of the early stuff on EQD people talk as if Princess Celestia is some kind of immortal being with limitless power.

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1 minute ago, Aaargh Zombies said:

The fandom has been doing this since day 1.

If we go back to some of the early stuff on EQD people talk as if Princess Celestia is some kind of immortal being with limitless power.

She was certainly presented as such. Also, she did live for a very long time. She may well be immortal at this point. Or maybe not, who is to say~

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9 minutes ago, Aaargh Zombies said:

1) She wasn't over powered, she was simply well prepared. The spell meant that she always got there ahead of Twilight and could be ready and waiting for her. If we look at the sequence of events we see her attacking in one time jump and then Twilight countering in the next. Twilight is simply on the back hoof all the time. Twilight also isn't a fighter. She's rarely does more than a basic horn blast or shield. Look at Magic Duel, she did tried to out spell Trixie, rather than attack her.

2) There's nothing in series or comic canon to suggest that Twilight's powers changed when she became an Alicorn. She just grew wings.

We're simply seeing a well prepared unicorn with a levitation spell fighting against an unprepared unicorn with wings. I really don't think that Starlight can be called over powered, and more than Dash can be considered over powered.

I would argue Twilight is far more adapt as a fighter than some wanabe-dictator who spent the last few years just bullying people into following her through mental and physical torture. 

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20 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

It's inconsistent writing. 

Sombra was presented in "The Crystal Empire" as regional threat.  Celestia and Luna didn't even need the Elements.  Suddenly he's mounting a threat to Equestira in an alternate time line (though admittedly, time travel by it's very nature is stupid, so every alternate timeline making no logical sense isn't surprising.  I can forgive it).

 

Same with Tirek.  No elements were needed to defeat him.  Celestia and Luna don't confront Tirek when he's weak for no other reason than that Meghan wanted a big stupid fight in the final act. 

Chrysalis needed to be super-charged with more love power than she ever had before in order to take out Celestia (and Chrysalis was as surprised as anyone that she won).  The mane 6 tear throw hoards of drones like a hot knife through butter.  Now all the Princesses and Mane 6 can be taken out by a few drones without any problem. 

 

It's a reason I really don't care much for the 2 part episodes of this show anymore.  The writers have long since decided to put spectacle over substance.

Tirek was raising an army. He wasn't acting alone. He was also trying to free the Umbra, who are a threat in of themselves.

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