Friendship is Horses

Starlight Glimmer: hate or great?

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Oh my, not this again, not the universes theories! Was it fixed, not-fixed, a multiverse? So many answers, so many possibilities. HehehahahAHHHAMDHSHAHAMAHAHAGHA.

 

Sorry, this whole thing kinda reminded me of how we once spent a whole 4 hours trip with some friends discussing the multiverse theories and all that. They fried my brain :twitwitch:

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16 hours ago, Steel Crescent said:

Hate.

she completely ruined the life of chrysalis and just assumed that Chrysalis would join her even though she just ruined her life. It's like if i took everything in your life away then said "hay live with me now buddy!"

you could argue that "oh Chrysalis took the ponies and kidnapped them." Counter- she has never hurt anypony out of spite. Only to feed her foals. She probably had no choice and has been forced to take more forceful action.

so yea i don't like Starlight Glimmer at all. to think i used to like her before she changed and believed she wasn't bad then she goes and does that.

To be fair, Twilight and co. destroyed Starlight's life and she decided to join the good guys, so you can't blame her for thinking that's normal. Plus, Chrysalis made pretty clear in that finale that she was doing it all just so she could get a power boost. Which is a shame, because it's a cliché motivation, but there you go.

17 hours ago, Jederick said:

The thing with the finale is that we spent way too much time exploring alternative timelines. It felt more like a fanservice episode rather than a Season Finale revolving around Twilight and Starlight. This costed Starlight a lot of precious character development.

I agree, as cool as those timelines were, they didn't really contribute anything. It wouldn't have been too bad if Starlight, or at least a version of Starlight, had turned up in them to provide us with time for some character development, different ways of looking at her character or a backstory that was a little more thought out.

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59 minutes ago, Skyrazer said:

She's also ridiculously overpowered for the sake of staying relevant past her villain phase

She doesn't seem overpowered. Examples?

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14 minutes ago, Revanche said:

She doesn't seem overpowered. Examples?

 

Well maybe she's not overpowered per-se, but its more like a hole in her character development. We never saw her fail. Since day one we only see her do outstanding tricks like levitating, creating a time travel spell, using ofensive magic capable of rivaling an Alicorn Princess, etc etc etc. Even in her daily life, she's able to cook cakes faster and better than an Earth Pony whose Cuite Mark is baking. And then she simply goes mixing spells and brainwashing people. And when you forget about this traits and want to see her as a living pony...Twilight arrives and reminds the public of how powerful Starlight is. Everytime Twilight interacts with Starlight, she MUST make a comment about how fast she progress and about how great she is with magic.

 

Again, is this being overpowered? Maybe a little, but the thing is that we never saw her develop this kind of magic. There's the real problem. We saw Twilight try and fail, learn from her mistakes. During Season 1 she used to get tired after using her teleportation spell! And then with time her magical power grew. We tagged along so we never felt she was becoming over-powered. We didn't have that with Starlight. And since we have five Alicorns, a Chaos Entity and so many other magical creatures walking around, Stalight needs to be powerful fast enough or else she can't keep up. So she simply appeared being great and powerful and that created the feeling of her being overpowered.

 

 

 

Though seriously, the ultra baking cake moment? That was unnecessary. There's no respect for Earth Ponies anymore:applejargh:

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54 minutes ago, Jederick said:

And since we have five Alicorns, a Chaos Entity and so many other magical creatures walking around, Stalight needs to be powerful fast enough or else she can't keep up. 

Sand Cadence and Flurry Heart, I doubt Starlight could take any of the above on in a straight-fight.

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20 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

If you want to provide your own explanation to make that scene make sense, it's fine, but this is definition of headcanon. And complaining that it's lacking in canon is perfectly legitimate.

For sure. I guess my point was that, moving forward, I'm willing to overlook her sudden morality shift and just, like, pretend that they handled it better for the sake of enjoying the show now, but I communicated that poorly and it probably should have been left out of public discussion in the first place. My bad.

People sure do have their opinions on this character. Whee! I do feel bad for the people who hate her with a burning passion, because she has hijacked the show to a large extent. Strap yourselves in, she's not going anywhere soon.

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4 hours ago, Revanche said:

To be fair, Twilight and co. destroyed Starlight's life and she decided to join the good stallions, so you can't blame her for thinking that's normal. Plus, Chrysalis made pretty clear in that finale that she was doing it all just so she could get a power boost. Which is a shame, because it's a cliché motivation, but there you go.

 

Fair enough. damn starlight is messed up in the head if that were true. The destroying lives is normal part.

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2 hours ago, Friendship is Horses said:

For sure. I guess my point was that, moving forward, I'm willing to overlook her sudden morality shift and just, like, pretend that they handled it better for the sake of enjoying the show now, but I communicated that poorly and it probably should have been left out of public discussion in the first place. My bad.

People sure do have their opinions on this character. Whee! I do feel bad for the people who hate her with a burning passion, because she has hijacked the show to a large extent. Strap yourselves in, she's not going anywhere soon.

I don't think that you shouldn't have mentioned that. Talking about stuff is what the forum is for.

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She's definitely not on my "Great" list I can tell you that much.

 

I don't hate her to the point where I want her to die but the show has done a shitty job of getting me to want to root for her

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8 hours ago, KiiKrindar said:

That depends on which theory you use. ;) One can argue that if you have a multiverse you can't really create them. Every possibility just exists in parallel. In that sense, Starlight did nothing more than changing the universe Twilight is in.

Those are just very far fetched speculations though.

Whether she created them, or they already existed doesn't really matter. The fact is that in every one of those parallel universes she did something that prevented the Rainboom from happening and thus lead to some pretty severe scenarios down the line.

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On 12/13/2016 at 8:00 PM, Jederick said:

Taking that post into consideration...

To those who likes Glimmer, do you like her actual persona, or her communist-evil-pony persona? Idk, maybe some people like the old Starlight only, or viceversa.

I liked her as a villain. I thought she was the best villain Hasbro had put in the show and I still do... until, of course they "reformed" her. 

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Since I'm in this kind of a mood and I want to cheer him on for the Pay Per View this weekend... PLEASE BECOME DOUBLE CHAMPION ROMAN...

My final word:

*locks and loads*

*Superman Punches Starlight Glimmer*

:anger:

 

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I like her, but I wish they'd do more with her as a character. She had tons of missed potential in s6, but they wasted it on episodes like No Second Prances. If s7 is the same shit, and there are more seasons, than just toss her aside.

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1 hour ago, Celli said:

I like her, but I wish they'd do more with her as a character. She had tons of missed potential in s6, but they wasted it on episodes like No Second Prances. If s7 is the same shit, and there are more seasons, than just toss her aside.

I liked No Second Prances! There were so many great moments in that one. Rainbow Dash suddenly remembering that she doesn't actually *like* Starlight Glimmer, Twilight's I-hate-your-guts smile, "Wanna help me unpack my wagon?" (if you know what I mean), Trixie being a disaster at life by immediately alienating her only friend, the Pate and Growerful Triskie, acknowledging Celestia's physics-defying mane... it was a solid, entertaining episode, aside from the questionable lesson that, if someone threatens to kill herself if you don't go back to her, go back to her. What didn't you like about it? Or how did it waste Starlight's potential?

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As much as I love GlimGlam as 2nd best pony I think what gets a lot of ponies up in arms is the fact that she is promoted to a ridiculously crazy extent by some pretty hardcore cult of equality fanatics on places like EQD. Trixie is kinda in the same boat since the end of Season 6. There is so much of this that this ends up riling fans of other more popular characters who are sick and tired of seeing people worshiping her on a consistent basis and cramming her down their throats.  While Starlight and Trixie are definitely far more likable then they used to be in the past (not that there was any viable reason to dislike them in the first place ;) ) the amount of attention they have been getting has definitely pissed off some people and I can understand why she gets his indirect hate.

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On 12/13/2016 at 8:00 PM, Jederick said:

Taking that post into consideration...

To those who likes Glimmer, do you like her actual persona, or her communist-evil-pony persona? Idk, maybe some people like the old Starlight only, or viceversa.

I like her both as a villain and reformed.

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33 minutes ago, "User" said:

I think what gets a lot of ponies up in arms is the fact that she is promoted to a ridiculously crazy extent by some pretty hardcore cult of equality fanatics on places like EQD. Trixie is kinda in the same boat since the end of Season 6. There is so much of this that this ends up riling fans of other more popular characters who are sick and tired of seeing people worshiping her on a consistent basis and cramming her down their throats.

I'd be interesting in knowing how some have been ridiculously promoting her or going overboard in worshiping her (not denying they exist; just haven't seen them myself).

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Just now, ChB said:

I'd be interesting in knowing how some have been ridiculously promoting her or going overboard in worshiping her (not denying they exist; just haven't seen them myself).

I've usually seen them in Starlight or Trixie related blog entries concerning Season 6

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I'm gonna copypasta from a comment I posted a while ago in an EqD discussion about Every Little Thing She Does:

 

You know what? I actually think that Starlight was conceived with good intentions. I think that the show staff realized that people disliked Princess Twilight, and I think that Starlight is their attempt to replace the old Twi' and bring the show back to it's season 1 / 2 feel. I respect the show-runners for trying to please us. What I don't respect is their abandonment of Twilight as a character, and their failure to execute their plan with any grace. And has anyone else noticed that Starlight is a big pink middle-finger to the tagline Friendship is Magic?

Remember that scene The Cutie Map pt.II when Starlight tried to zap Twilight and co. and Twilight blocks the bolt and Starlight is all like "How are you so good at magic?!" and Twilight is like "I'm all friendshipped-up, yo." Today Starlight is less angry, but hardly a better friend and yet she's still magic-ing with the best of em! I feel like the show staff is trying to make Twilight 2.0, but they've forgotten what Twilight 1.0 was like! After season 1 episode 1, Twilight is hardly ever a bad friend. But she becomes a better pony still, and her magical ability increases along with it to the point where apparently she deserves to be a princess(?)(that's another discussion). The point is that Twilight made a believable argument for friendship = magic. Starlight's whole deal is questioning whether she needs friends, because she's amazing at magic on her own. THAT'S LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE OF FRIENDSHIP = MAGIC.

argh

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

As an amendment to this, I'm gonna say that I think the season finale actually did a respectable job of realizing Starlight. It's not enough to make me like her, but I think that the characterization we saw was a step in the right direction.

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On 12/14/2016 at 1:27 PM, Friendship is Horses said:

...moving forward, I'm willing to overlook her sudden morality shift and just, like, pretend that they handled it better for the sake of enjoying the show now...

 

And voluntarily pass up a chance to complain about something?!?!

 

I can't believe we're the same species...

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3 minutes ago, Princess Rainbow Magic Pants said:

I think that the show staff realized that people disliked Princess Twilight

We do? I thought we just missed non-Princess Twilight.

Anway, it's not Freidnship=Magic, it's Freidnship is magic, so the case could be argued that, while all fFriendhsip is magic, not all magic is friendship. If you want to get pedantic.

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Just now, Princess Rainbow Magic Pants said:

 

And voluntarily pass up a chance to complain about something?!?!

 

I can't believe we're the same species...

 

Marry me.

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From where I'm standing there seem to be two issues here:

 

1) They hurt my headcanon

2) Starlight is taking screen time away from (Insert Best Pony Here).

To be honest, if I could bottle all of the sour grapes that I'm seeing I could probably start up a company making bad wine to sell at artisan drinks fairs.

People keep bringing up niggles and then adding drama to them to try to justify why their view doesn't fit into (1) or (2).

Starlight had the longest single reformation arc of any character. Luna was reformed by a friendship canon shot to the knee. One minute she's bad, then ext she's good. Discord had one episode where he saw the entire thing as a joke until the last 5 minutes of the episode. The only other character who has this much attention is Sombra who is reformed in the comics where they weren't constrained by the episode time factor.

Her backstory is also more fleshed out that most villains outside of the comics. We get less than a minute for backstory for Sombra and Discord and Tirek in their own story arcs. It's not until Princess Twilight Sparkle (Season 4) that we actually get to see any what happens with Discord and Nightmare Moon. We just get narration before that. And we don't get to see what happens with Tirek at all. Trixie, well, she doesn't even get a narrative back story. She simply shows up. As do the Flim Flam brothers.

Starlight is an imperfect character. She starts out strong and confident. She believes that her cause is righteous and dismisses everything that might contradict her world view. She is defeated but becomes obsessed with revenge. She's more or less abandoned her original plan and is only interested in hurting Twilight. She ramps things up and up and up until she realizes that she's essentially ripped the fabric of time in two, and she's emotionally broken by it.

She loses her village, and is sustained by the desire for revenge, and she then loses that as well. He character is then systematically deconstructed and reconstructed over an entire story arc. Which has never been done in MLP.

There is no magic one shot reform for her. She goes back to her old ways several times during the story arc, using magic to manipulate others against their will or to achieve things that she should have been doing manually. Most notable in No second Prances and Every Little Thing ...

It's not so much that she being reformed, it's that she has to come to realize that she can't force things on other ponies. She can't force ponies to do what she wants, or to agree with each other\her.

In this sense she's the only villain who has actually come to realize the errors of what they were doing (With the possible exception of Gilda, though she was a jerk rather than a villain). Discord just behaves himself but he still thinks the same, and Nightmare Moon too the aforementioned friendship canon to the knee. Trixie hasn't really changed at all. She's just stopped obsessing over Twilight.

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41 minutes ago, Aaargh Zombies said:

From where I'm standing there seem to be two issues here:

 

1) They hurt my headcanon

2) Starlight is taking screen time away from (Insert Best Pony Here).

3) I like this character and the show better forget about everything and make it the goddess of Equestria.

 

Don't we love a straw man in this fandom?

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Just now, Metemponychosis said:

3) I like this character and the show better forget about everything and make it the goddess of Equestria.

 

Don't we love a straw man in this fandom?

I'm not even sure that people are aware that they are doing it. I've seen countless people building these extremely convoluted strawmare arguments about why they think that Starlight Glimmers is "The worst thing every to happen to MLP", but at the end of the day when you challenge them on things it all comes down to them being upset that Hasbro has taken Starlight Glimmer in a different direction from their headcanon, or that they don't like that she's been given so much screen time this season.

A few weeks ago I challenged somebody over their strawmare arguments by showing them that - in relation to each part of their argument - pretty much every single hero and villain in MLP had been treated in the exact same way, and that most everything that they'd mentioned was due to the 23 minute episode limit, and they threw this massive hissy over it.

It's all part of the whole "drama" thing. People become overly invested in their headcanon, and when the show takes a character a different way from the way that their headcanon was going they react as if Hasbro has done this to spite them.

When somebody makes an extremely complicated argument as to why a character is bad, and you then show them that the exact same argument could be used against characters as diverse as Fluttershy and Tirek, because Hasbro tends to treat all characters in that way, they don't like it.

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