Number?

Another MLP:FIM review thread

130 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Nuke87654 said:

I agree with your point that the resolution was rushed and bad considering how serious of an issue with self harm is. As for her motivations, I would say that isn't true as for the most part, this is essentially resolving her issues where she pretty much hates herself for becoming Nightmare Moon and trying to take over Equestria. It's also not true she didn't do anything as NMM as she had attacked and injured Princess Celestia when she became Nightmare Moon and had her kidnapped at the series premiere so there's plenty of reasoning for Luna to pretty much hate herself for what she had done. Tantabus's issue was that she underestimated it's desire to feed and became independent from her, also it was meant to represent the lingering pain of self harm where because she allowed it to fester and not remedy it, it became worse and worse as time went on. What her admitting that she needed help or something at the end and the tantabus stopping from invading was supposed to represent of how one admitting their issue and coming to find ways to fix it is the key to solving it. Sure I wish they did a therapy episode for it, but honestly I do appreciate the point they made other than the rushed ending. At least that's what I think.

The rushed resolution, at least imo, is far from the episode's biggest problem.

Outside of attacking Princess Celestia, NMM hasn't done anything else. Even in the premiere of the show, she didn't do that much to the Mane 6 or Equestria. Since Luna did so little as NMM, she just looks like she's exaggerating a minor problem. Now, the episode could do something with that trait as Luna might make a big fuss over any problem that has at least a minor connection to her (which can answer how her guilt affected her), but that's not what happened. Since Celestia was the only one who was personally affected by the NMM business, that was just more reason to include her.

I still think Luna was dumb about letting the Tantabus get out of control without a reason. After it escapes, the next scene with Luna is with the Mane 6, and she is already remarking about the problems the Tantabus could cause which implied that she knew about its capabilities. Still not my biggest problem with the episode.

As for the Tantabus representing a growing unsolved problem, fine. It still doesn't answer one of my 2 biggest complaints about the episode: What does this unsolved problem mean for Luna? I still don't know how it affected her. Sure she punished herself every night, but what else happened?

My other biggest complaint is that it says nothing about Luna other than she's troubled. Because the episode doesn't play with that idea, I'm not even convinced that she's troubled. The following segment from my review still holds.

6 hours ago, Number? said:

To expand on my complaints, how has the guilt and self-punishment affected Luna? All of that sounds bad, but how exactly have they been bad for Luna? How have they affected her mental state and her life? How she thinks? How she works? How she acts or makes choices? Her interactions with average pony citizens? Most of all and in particular, how has this affected her relationship with the absent Princess Celestia? I haven’t got a clue because the episode doesn’t show how or why Luna’s “self-destructive” acts or thoughts are so bad. I’m not saying that all of those questions had to be answered. The problem is that NONE of those are answered or can be answered. Thus, this episode doesn’t convince me in any way that Luna was troubled.

  • She could have lived a serene and bright life while being unaware of her guilt and deals with this guilt only while she dreams, meaning that her feeling of guilt only comes up at a single point during her day without affecting anything else. That doesn’t make much sense, but the episode can’t even disprove this idea.

 

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7 minutes ago, Nuke87654 said:

Honestly I probably need to pay more attention to that point with not involving celestia when folks in ponyville are able to fight the tantabus.

To be fair, even I didn't think about that until I wrote my response to Number?.

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1 hour ago, WaterPulse said:

You care. :ajlol:

In all seriousness, IMO, the fact that they made this a single episode instead of two (including a potential therapy section) severely hampered whatever development they were trying to go for with Luna.

Yeah, I guess I did care, and that's why I wanted a good story about her problems. I suppose the question should be, "Why the fuck should I care?"

However, the line I put at the end still sums up my thoughts about the episode.

I don't know if the episode needed to be a 2-parter, but the final product still needs to talk about Luna and her life (which this episode didn't do).

1 hour ago, WaterPulse said:

Plus the reason for not including Celestia was stupid. "She has no power over the dream world!" Meanwhile everyone in Ponyville was kicking the Tantabus's ass.

 

12 minutes ago, Nuke87654 said:

Honestly I probably need to pay more attention to that point with not involving celestia when folks in ponyville are able to fight the tantabus. It's a great point @Number? said.

And yeah, excluding Celestia like that was retarded for the reason @WaterPulse said. That could've implied a problem with a relationship between the sisters, but too bad that means nothing in the end.

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22 hours ago, Number? said:

The rushed resolution, at least imo, is far from the episode's biggest problem.

Outside of attacking Princess Celestia, NMM hasn't done anything else. Even in the premiere of the show, she didn't do that much to the Mane 6 or Equestria. Since Luna did so little as NMM, she just looks like she's exaggerating a minor problem. Now, the episode could do something with that trait as Luna might make a big fuss over any problem that has at least a minor connection to her (which can answer how her guilt affected her), but that's not what happened. Since Celestia was the only one who was personally affected by the NMM business, that was just more reason to include her.

I still think Luna was dumb about letting the Tantabus get out of control without a reason. After it escapes, the next scene with Luna is with the Mane 6, and she is already remarking about the problems the Tantabus could cause which implied that she knew about its capabilities. Still not my biggest problem with the episode.

As for the Tantabus representing a growing unsolved problem, fine. It still doesn't answer one of my 2 biggest complaints about the episode: What does this unsolved problem mean for Luna? I still don't know how it affected her. Sure she punished herself every night, but what else happened?

My other biggest complaint is that it says nothing about Luna other than she's troubled. Because the episode doesn't play with that idea, I'm not even convinced that she's troubled. The following segment from my review still holds.

 

The fact she attacked her own sister and imprisoned her is enough for a person to feel guilty for what they had done. Especially that Luna's actions had caused a huge 1000 year gap between Celestia and Luna. In effect, Luna had caused Celestia to lose her sister for 1000 years and who knows how she has suffered for it (seriously, DHX, you have a great episode premise there.) That alone is enough to justify why Luna would hate herself for what she had done. Let alone whatever small but notable amount of terror she had caused upon her return. There's also a reason for the nightmare night holiday centered around her. And yea, Celestia should've been involved in the episode but it's a huge missed opportunity that for some reason DHX chose to not include in the episode. 

I would say that it was a case that she let it get out of control and she didn't expect it would rebel like that as she had thought that it wouldn't do that. Should she have taken more caution however, sure. The unresolved problem means that Luna is suffering from self loathing for the most part. With it's rushed resolution, she now doesn't have to be such an emo anymore. As for what she was doing every night, considering how in Season 7 she remarked that a pony's dream can be so bad that their psyche can suffer permanent damage from it, she was essentially causing self inflicted PTSD to herself so that's pretty bad for what she was doing. I would say she's pretty trouble considering her self loathing issues and especially what she's choosing to solve it.

Hope it clarifies my points more.

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On 8/13/2017 at 5:34 PM, Nuke87654 said:

The fact she attacked her own sister and imprisoned her is enough for a person to feel guilty for what they had done. Especially that Luna's actions had caused a huge 1000 year gap between Celestia and Luna. In effect, Luna had caused Celestia to lose her sister for 1000 years and who knows how she has suffered for it (seriously, DHX, you have a great episode premise there.) That alone is enough to justify why Luna would hate herself for what she had done. Let alone whatever small but notable amount of terror she had caused upon her return. There's also a reason for the nightmare night holiday centered around her. And yea, Celestia should've been involved in the episode but it's a huge missed opportunity that for some reason DHX chose to not include in the episode. 

I would say that it was a case that she let it get out of control and she didn't expect it would rebel like that as she had thought that it wouldn't do that. Should she have taken more caution however, sure. The unresolved problem means that Luna is suffering from self loathing for the most part. With it's rushed resolution, she now doesn't have to be such an emo anymore. As for what she was doing every night, considering how in Season 7 she remarked that a pony's dream can be so bad that their psyche can suffer permanent damage from it, she was essentially causing self inflicted PTSD to herself so that's pretty bad for what she was doing. I would say she's pretty trouble considering her self loathing issues and especially what she's choosing to solve it.

Hope it clarifies my points more.

I suppose I could clarify myself as well. Luna's reason for punishing herself seems stupid because the episode never talks about the effects of doing so and thus doesn't say much, if anything, about Luna. I agree with the reasons you gave, but the episode not actually saying anything about Luna is, again, my biggest gripe which is why the reason behind her self-punishment can look silly. Really, any response I have can be taken from my review.

At least in "A Royal Problem", we actually see how Starlight felt about what she did. Though I even found the overall execution for that episode to be shaky because the Starlight stuff should've been its own episode.

EDIT: I probably didn't explain myself well in this post, so I'll try again.

OK, what is this episode about? I'd like to think it's about Luna and her mental and emotional problems, but I've learned very little about them from this episode for reasons I've already stated.

So this episode ends up being more about the threat of the Tantabus, and that's fine. But then I must ask: Why bring up the troubles Luna was having if the episode wasn't going to talk about them?

Edited by Number?
some stuff

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