Number95

Another MLP:FIM review thread

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On 9/19/2018 at 3:59 PM, Metemponychosis said:

There are two characters in this show that bring out a very weird reaction in me. They are both characters that I like but I can't help being convinced there is something internally wrong about them, I mean, in the inner workings of the franchise. While I'm convinced that Starlight Glimmer is someone's daughter's OC, I'm convinced that there is someone in the decision making process that absolutely hates Celestia with all the might of their black little heart.

Profoundly magical, and possessing of a commanding presence, ruling Equestria with her sister, the Elements of Harmony book describes her as and I can't imagine the cartoon landing her further from that. The cartoon can't even decide on what the hell is it that she does and Luna doesn't, while having no problem at throwing princesses around lie the term means nothing to it.

While at that, Jim Miller goes on to blabber that Celestia is like Superman and could fix anything too easily. Right... The only thing that will hurt a character more than sloppy writing is aimless writing.

If the crew hates Celestia, that's one thing. But if that really happens the case, I have to wonder why they ever bothered with her. I honestly doubt Hasbro pressured them into keeping her around. Another unfortunate case of stupidity from the show.

And I remember Jim Miller making a statement like that somewhere, but I don't remember where. I wonder if they have even looked at their own creations because nothing about Princess Celestia in the show makes her comparable to a "Superman". Making that statement even dumber is that DC adaptations would try to make sure Superman isn't overpowered to prevent that problem.

On 9/19/2018 at 3:59 PM, Metemponychosis said:

Twilight wrote a kindergarten level play, with kindergarten level actors to tell a story that's probably been told [i[ad nauseam[/i] by countless professional theaters and professional actors, recounted in songs and poems like a goddamn religion. Of course, that is on a reasonable world where things make sense. In this cartoon, there are Canterlot ponies watching a school play just so we can pretend that there are any level of stakes in this story. In this cartoon, raising the sun is only important when they don't know what the hell to do with Celestia but is barely mentioned when the focus is on anything else and ponies couldn't give a rat's ass about the lack of her raising the sun. This is the exact opposite of how you build lore around a character and anything it does. Celestia is supposed to be legendary, not a celebrity of a figurehead 'not-queen'.

That's why it's even more of a shame that Princess Celestia as well as the other non-Twilight alicorns haven't been given any real focus or expansion. I get the feeling that the creative crew wants them to be mysterious, but dragging that for so long ends up making them look shallow or dull. And that problem is compounded when characters try to praise them when those alicorns haven't done anything to deserve that praise. Also, since those alicorns also didn't do anything, they instead looked useless and/or incompetent.

On 9/19/2018 at 3:59 PM, Metemponychosis said:

This is bullshit. The cartoon fails to explain why she never did pursue what she said was her dream AND never explained why is it that she ended up 'ruling' the nation instead of pursuing her dream. And still, my profession is medicine, but I still find time, in my limited 80 or something life span to play games, write and publish books and watch dumbass cartoons. There is no excuse for the way the episode treats Celestia and her dream or her motivation.

I don't think there would've been room to explore Celestia's life, especially when considering the episode's own intentions. She may not be good at one thing, but she's able to make use of something else that's relevant enough. I'm not saying it worked perfectly, however.

Of course, the show could try to explain itself if it's ever interested, but that's unlikely.

On 9/19/2018 at 3:59 PM, Metemponychosis said:

TL;DR: Twilight, again, acts as if she barely knows Celestia.

I figure Twilight might have kept making the mistake of putting Princess Celestia on a pedestal, but there are problems with that idea already which I've talked about.

On 9/19/2018 at 3:59 PM, Metemponychosis said:

Celestia's acting didn't bother me because of two things: I'm already used to MLP and it's heavy hand on anything that requires subtlety; and because that is not celestia's job. If this episode was in a cartoon where Celestia is some sort of implacable, badass queen that nobody can mess with, the whole thing about her goofing off would've been even better.

Her bad acting didn't bother me, either. I was remarking that, at least from what I've seen in cartoons, that when an episode tries to show that a character is terrible at acting, the character (or voice actor, I suppose) gives an intentionally bad performance.

For example, there was an episode of Darkwing Duck where Darkwing tries to act for a show or movie (I forget which), and he also gives a bad performance. I don't remember what episode that was, and I'm too lazy to look.

On 9/19/2018 at 3:59 PM, Metemponychosis said:

It always amazes me how much Celestia is defined by what she isn't, what she can't do. It's as if there is some other series about her that turns her into the ultimate Mary Sue.

That's pretty much the problem I have with the show's portrayal of her. And because of that, I keep wondering what she can do with the show not providing any answers.

I've sort of talked about this when I rambled about "Shadow Play".

On 12/13/2017 at 9:07 PM, Number95 said:

Again, I’m fine with Celestia not knowing everything, but this case still doesn’t help her image because it’s yet another example of her not being able to do something while still not saying she can do. Just to reiterate, she:

  • Can’t defend (and is ultimately inconsequential to Equestria according to “The Cutie Re-Mark”)
  • Can’t beat the villains or even help with the villains’ defeat
  • Doesn’t know anything about the Crystal Empire
  • Doesn’t (seem to) know anything about Star Swirl’s spell from the end of season 3
  • Has poor judgment for trusting the obviously untrustworthy Discord at the end of season 4
  • Doesn’t know why Flurry Heart is an alicorn
  • Can’t fend off a blizzard
  • Can’t do anything about Starlight’s cutie mark spell
  • And now she can’t read an old language (which I just talked about earlier)

 

 

At least a few of those are huge negatives, by the way. So to attempt to alleviate those negatives (good luck with the first point), what does she have to compensate? She did do an impressive spell in “Lesson Zero”, but that’s the only time she did anything impressive. I guess she has been keeping Equestria together for 1000 years, but too bad the show hasn’t shown how she does this. And why does this seemingly amazing ruler become so useless and incompetent when she shows up in a two-part episode? It’s also hard to believe that someone like her has kept Equestria together for that long. Just refer to “Twilight’s Kingdom” and “The Cutie Re-Mark” for good examples of her competence and helpfulness. What else? Uh, um… she can talk… and walk. Basic pony stuff. As in, who the hell knows?

 

On 9/19/2018 at 4:40 PM, WaterPulse said:

If that's the best the could do for Celestia post-Season 2, that's kind of depressing.

What did you think of the episode? 

Personally, I don't think the show even did that well with her during the first 2 seasons.

 

Edited by Number95
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6 hours ago, Number95 said:

...

What did you think of the episode? 

...

 

Setting aside the problems surrounding Celestia and judging the episode on its own merits, it was okay, I guess.

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On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 5:02 PM, Number95 said:

If the crew hates Celestia, that's one thing. But if that really happens the case, I have to wonder why they ever bothered with her. I honestly doubt Hasbro pressured them into keeping her around. Another unfortunate case of stupidity from the show.

When I say this, it's hyperbole. But I could imagine that they kept her around because she does have a following in the fandom. But since I think that they don't really give two effs about the fandom, I can't really defend that notion. Call it a hunch.

More likely, the problem is that since she is in a 'political' position, the cartoon is too afraid something meaningful with her... Because pretending you're a feminist show is fine, but a political stance would be unthinkable. At the same time, the bottom line is that some of the things they did with her are so bad that can't be unintentional or just lazy.

Again, take what I say with a grain of salt.

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 5:02 PM, Number95 said:

And I remember Jim Miller making a statement like that somewhere, but I don't remember where. I wonder if they have even looked at their own creations because nothing about Princess Celestia in the show makes her comparable to a "Superman". Making that statement even dumber is that DC adaptations would try to make sure Superman isn't overpowered to prevent that problem.

Equestria Daily, comment section of his interview.

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 5:02 PM, Number95 said:

I don't think there would've been room to explore Celestia's life, especially when considering the episode's own intentions. She may not be good at one thing, but she's able to make use of something else that's relevant enough. I'm not saying it worked perfectly, however.

Of course, the show could try to explain itself if it's ever interested, but that's unlikely.

The point is that giving Celestia this quirk was a bad idea. It would've worked better if she simply decided to try her hoof at acting, given the opportunity. The way they did it, it feels like they tried to input a sort of drama without really trying. "Oh... She had dreams that she couldn't follow... So what? This didn't go anywhere, never existed before, and won't ever go anywhere." Particularly when she jokes that she's going to leave her job and the feeling this leaves behind is that she wouldn't really be missed as soon as you start to think about it.

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On 9/20/2018 at 7:42 PM, WaterPulse said:

Setting aside the problems surrounding Celestia and judging the episode on its own merits, it was okay, I guess.

That doesn't sound confident about the episode being "not bad", but whatever. 

I would say that it's kind of hard to make an episode where Celestia is more prominent as those negative portrayals of her are even more prominent. The worst part is that the creative team doesn't know or doesn't think that there is a problem with her.

On 9/22/2018 at 11:39 PM, Metemponychosis said:

More likely, the problem is that since she is in a 'political' position, the cartoon is too afraid something meaningful with her... Because pretending you're a feminist show is fine, but a political stance would be unthinkable. At the same time, the bottom line is that some of the things they did with her are so bad that can't be unintentional or just lazy.

More like a seemingly powerful position, and then they'll keep coming up with excuses to leave her behind. And you know what happened after resorting to that too often.

On 9/22/2018 at 11:39 PM, Metemponychosis said:

The point is that giving Celestia this quirk was a bad idea. It would've worked better if she simply decided to try her hoof at acting, given the opportunity. The way they did it, it feels like they tried to input a sort of drama without really trying. "Oh... She had dreams that she couldn't follow... So what? This didn't go anywhere, never existed before, and won't ever go anywhere." Particularly when she jokes that she's going to leave her job and the feeling this leaves behind is that she wouldn't really be missed as soon as you start to think about it.

It's like I said before, she's screwed no matter what happens. The show only made her look like an incompetent ruler. And if she did get to do something else, the show would probably just make her screw up anyways because it doesn't know what to do with her.

 

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School Daze

 

Surprisingly, the episode starts off by referencing the theatrical movie. Good thing the creative team wanted to be more explicit about the movie actually mattering to the show, but at the same time I also don’t really care if that would have been the case at this point due to my abysmal interest in the show, and I’m only watching this episode just to see what kind of crap they come up with for this 2-parter. Outside of “Horse Play” and the “School Raze” finale, I don’t have a reason to bother with the rest of season 8. And of course, I will bitch about stuff that irritates me if and when they come up.

 

Rarity recalls the experience with Klugetown, which is still strangely not named at this point. Then again, the Mane 6 (which includes Spike) never learned the name of the place, so whatever.

 

RD even reminisces her experience with the pirates and mentioned that the Mane 6 plus Spike were almost thrown out of the ship. Thankfully 3 out of the 7 characters could fly. Of course, 3 other ponies plus Spike don’t have a way to prevent themselves from falling to their deaths, but I’m pretty sure Twilight could’ve just used her magic to pull them up while they were falling. By the way, the map showed the pirate ship still flying around even though Tempest destroyed it. Maybe the pirates built a new one after the end of the movie.

 

Pinkie then says that they made seashell necklaces for all of the seaponies. I don’t remember that happening in the movie, not even in “One Small Thing”. Either I’m remembering that musical number wrong, or maybe that stuff happened off-screen after the end of the movie.

 

Starlight asks about Tempest, and I sort of wonder what Starlight did during the movie. Then again, I don’t care for Starlight, so I also don’t care to find the answer. Next.

 

Twilight says that Tempest wanted to spread news of the Storm King’s death defeat and information about the power of friendship. The movie didn’t exactly make it seem like Tempest learned what friendship really meant. Sure, she saved Twilight, but that was repayment for Twilight saving her earlier from the Storm King. That looks more like doing some good can also feel good, or that helping others will give those others a reason to help back. There is also Tempest’s backstory about her being abandoned by ponies she thought were her friends, but she doesn’t see or experience for herself that real friends don’t abandon each other. Twilight’s friends did that for a while being coming back to her and reconciling, and Tempest witnessed the Mane 6 embracing after previously seeing Twilight all alone, but is that really enough? That stuff is just one part of friendship. But I’m going on a tangent, so moving on.

 

With all these references to the movie, it’s a bit of a shame that the movie characters won’t show their faces. But I'm sure the real reason the movie characters won’t appear in the show is because they won’t be able to get the characters’ respective voice actors back due to scheduling conflicts, lower pay (which seems more likely to me), or another reason I’m unaware of. And the creative team doesn’t want to recast the movie characters. If that’s also true, they probably should have casted people who do voice acting for a living, but whatever.

 

AJ notes that the Friendship Map (I don’t recall the show giving it an official name) expanded during the events of the movie. Apparently, it was keeping track of the Mane 6 even though it also didn’t send them on a friendship quest, because why the fuck not? Obviously, its main purpose is to give the Mane 6 (plus Spike and Starlight; anytime I refer to the Mane 6, I’ll be alluding to Spike and Starlight as well) an excuse to go to certain places, and the creative team wants to reuse the movie locations (one synopsis of an episode had seaponies) as well as create new ones. Aren’t the Mane 6 so blessed? They’re connected to the Elements of Harmony, they get to be heroes and save Equestria in the meantime, they have a huge fucking crystal castle with their own personal thrones, a magical map that works specifically toward them, and said map lets them explore and travel to new places to have another adventure. And before someone says that they have a lot of problems to deal with (i.e. episodes), at least they get to deal with and work through those problems, which is better than sitting around and doing nothing (i.e. the role of the other alicorns). Twilight has been given extra blessings, but that’s not relevant right now.

 

Anyways, Twilight decides to create the School of Friendship because, in her words, there are creatures who know nothing about friendship. Really? I find that hard to believe, so someone correct me if that’s somehow true. It’s not like Twilight was inspired after seeing others not acting the way they should toward their own friends. The reason I find the idea of “creatures” knowing nothing about friendship is because friendship seems like a concept every “person” knows about. If a person doesn’t want companionship or even just plain help from others, or maybe one might find friendship to be mushy or some bullshit, then that means they’re already familiar with the idea of friendship since they have a certain feeling about the idea. It’s not like they live in complete isolation. And they’d also decide whether they want other people they meet to stay in their lives or not. But  this minor ramble about the credibility of such a reason to open this school is pointless as the show runs with it, and I don’t really care if the show does something that I think it shouldn’t have nowadays as it’s past unsalvageable. Of course, that won’t stop me from calling stupidity to creative decisions. I also don’t know if the other episodes in season 8 have the Mane 6 trying to teach what friendship entails, and I still don’t care either.

 

So Twilight presents the her school idea to Princess Celestia, who will fulfill her usual role of exposition and making the episode seem big and important but will ultimately contribute nothing. Celestia even thinks that Twilight knows how to run a school because Twilight was her “star pupil”. Aside from the fact that the show hasn’t proven how Twilight was a “star pupil” outside of submitting her homework, anyone with half a brain cell can see that being a good student who’s eager to learn doesn’t merit qualification for running an entire fucking school, something that Twilight immediately points out. This may be an arguably minor case, but the show is still unsurprisingly not done with making Princess Celestia look like a moron. There’s only Twilight and Celestia in this scene, and someone had to point out the difficulty of such an undertaking, but the show would much rather make Twilight look smart even though it’s obvious that she lacks any kind of experience, so Celestia was the only candidate for being the unlucky (not really) schmuck. Why not just cut that line from Celestia and have Twilight quickly mention the difficulty of running a school during her own excitement for the same effect?

 

Celestia notes that Twilight will need approval from the EEA to set up the her new school, and even Celestia’s political position and authority don’t overtake the EEA’s. It’s only 3 minutes into the episode, and it’s already clear that Celestia will do nothing as usual. Sure, she will do slightly more later in the episode (such a description is too generous), but her role and actions still don’t impact the episode at all. Why do they even bother bringing her in if they always and immediately tell her to fuck off?

 

Twilight presents her ideas to the EEA, and it’s unsurprising that the EEA will be strict and obstructive (the darker lighting and Chancellor Neighsay’s speech pattern already give those away) because there needed to be more drama. I guess having Twilight trying her hoof at running a school for the first time, the Mane 6 learning how to teach (which will sort of come up later), and the Mane 6 also learning to keep the students in control and interested (general problems in any kind of school, really) weren’t appealing options for the episode. Neighsay gives Twilight the manual that sets the standards for schools in Equestria, and it wouldn’t be Twilight if she didn’t care about reading and getting the details right. Seriously though, I’m pretty sure nobody in real life ever would ever know the contents of any manual inside and out. I mean, even the chancellor quickly flips through his own copy of Twilight’s curriculum (how did Twilight make copies of her manual so quickly?) and pretty clearly demonstrates that he didn’t actually read it. He thought the school would only be for ponies, but Twilight wanted to invite all kinds of creatures, which her manual would say. And he also thought that the school would have the ponies learning to protect themselves. Whether he thought it meant defense against the dark arts or just simply learning about other dangerous creatures (wild or not), Twilight’s School of Friendship wouldn’t really include either of those. I don’t know if another episode in season 8 actually does show the Mane 6 teaching one of those, but those concepts are hardly the main goals of the school or just friendship in general. Twilight even mentions Friends and Family Day, so I don’t know what Neighsay was thinking.

 

Chancellor Neighsay even asks if he can trust Twilight to stick around at her school instead of going out to save Equestria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfsqEO-WQHc

Fine, I’ll try to interpret meaning of his line literally. He might be thinking that Twilight will leave to go on an adventure if she feels like it and might not actually care about the condition of the school, so he wants to confirm her commitment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIgfiSzCy1o

Okay, I can’t. I don’t know if Neighsay has ever kept up with the villains that showed up, but if he did, he’d know that Twilight and friends were there almost every single time. And Equestria would need to be safe and in one piece if he even wants any kind of school to stick around. Even if news of a villainous rampage don’t always get printed in the news or whatever, this still doesn’t work from an out-of-universe perspective because she’s the main fucking character, and the show wouldn’t purposefully exclude her completely. There was one exception was at the end of season 6 to give certain other characters some spotlight. It’s not like anyone else has ever been allowed to help. Yeah, Twilight and friends do get excluded again in the season 8 finale for the sake of another certain set of characters (more on that if I ever talk about that episode), but they were still allowed to participate, which is more than what I can say for some other characters.

 

Now we cut to the actual School of Friendship already set up. I wonder how much time has passed. Probably not as much as I think since magic can also be used for construction. Twilight’s friends are the teachers. Obviously. Who else would they be? Their friendship was the only one that has ever mattered, so they are in a way the ultimate authority on friendship. There’s the obvious question of the main characters having their own jobs (Rarity has a boutique and AJ is a farmer, for example), and they’d have to fit in teaching somehow. And it’s very likely that the school runs every weekday except during holidays. How will the Mane 6 fit this second job into their lives? With the writers’ blessings. As in, that stuff won’t matter unless an episode needs it to. I would have rolled with it even if I were still into the show for the sake of simplification and not having too many characters to deal with. Even though Twilight could’ve hired other ponies who could qualify as actual teachers, that means the show would be bringing in more characters (nevermind the issue of paying the teachers, so I guess the Mane 6 are willing to do their second jobs for free), and the use of supporting characters hasn’t been the show’s strong point. However, all of that won’t stop the show from bringing in a specific new set of characters to use for the season. More on that later. Starlight is also the guidance counselor, so she would help students with their academic goals and personal problems. I haven’t seen much of season 7 or 8, so I don’t know how much of if she has gotten better about learning friendship or just helping others through personal problems. I guess she could use her own experience to help the students. And there’s “A Royal Problem” where she helped Celestia and Luna, but that episode honestly didn’t need her.

 

The school bell rings, and everyone else is expecting a bunch of ponies to show up, but Twilight says that she forgot to mention that there will be other creatures as well. That’s not quite the case as she did mention wanting to teach other creatures before the theme song played. I hope the advertising didn’t cost too much. Then again, Twilight is more than likely rich since she’s a princess, has lived in Canterlot (a high-class society) for likely her entire life before moving to Ponyville, and had Princess Cadance as a babysitter (meaning her parents must have been pretty rich unless they cut off Twilight at some point  off-screen).

 

Anyways, there’s also dragons, yaks, Changelings, griffons, and hippogriffs. I wonder if some of the pony students cared more about possibly wielding the Elements of Harmony themselves instead of learning more about friendship. And the characters are gonna use the pronoun “everycreature” instead of their usual “everypony” for obvious reasons, which sounds extremely awkward especially when “everyone” and “everybody” would work just as well while still referring to generic creatures. The writers even occasionally (accidentally or not) used “everyone” and “everybody” instead of “everypony” in other episodes as well as this one.

 

And we’re immediately introduced to 6 new characters. It’s obvious that they will be friends (since the school is also about wanting different creatures to be friends) and even counterparts to the Mane 6 (fans even called them the Student 6, which is what I’ll call them collectively), which the season 8 finale confirms. More on that if I ever ramble about the finale.  The one who stands out the most is the hippogriff Silverstream because she’s pretty similar to Princess Skystar from the big movie in terms of personality. I almost wonder if they wanted to use Skystar as one of the students but couldn’t because Novo was even mentioned to be Silverstream’s aunt (instead of say, mom). I’m quite surprised to see that I miss Skystar probably because I would’ve liked to see more of her since she was a fun character, and maybe she could some catching up with Pinkie. Huh, I guess they brought in a new hippogriff to be attached to a new group because Skystar would more than likely stick with the Mane 6.

 

Time for school with a musical montage. I thought there would be more students that weren’t ponies, but it seems that I was wrong as only the Student 6 (minus the pony of that group) are the only non-ponies at the school. Things are fine at first with the teachers and students enjoying themselves, though I wonder if the teachers actually taught the students about friendship because the Mane 6 seemed to be talking about their own skills. For example, AJ was teaching about apples and apple-bucking (one part in the song later had her singing about teaching honesty with Pinocchio on the chalkboard, so what did honesty have to do with harvesting apples?), Rainbow Dash taught the students about weather and flying, and Fluttershy taught the students about animals and caring for them. Were they told what they were supposed to teach? Twilight eventually steps in because her friends weren’t teaching in a manner approved by the EEA, and this results in frustration and boredom for both the teachers and the students. She’s even oblivious to the apparent negative atmosphere that has resulted despite supervising the school.

 

The song is done, and the Student 6  vent their frustrations about the classes and their teachers. They already forgot what initially happened. Even the griffon, who’s normally rough and easily provoked, forgot that he was getting along with the pony of the group during the song. An argument comes up between some of the students in the group, with the Mane 6 and Starlight quickly diffusing it. AJ voices her surprise at this when they were trying to teach friendship. Again, the atmosphere of the school seemed rather positive during the song. RD even thinks that they’re not cut out to be teachers, so it looks like the rest of the Mane 6 also forgot about their initially enjoyable school experience.

 

The Mane 6 voices their concerns to Twilight, and she takes it pretty well as she thinks that the school will work because other schools follow the same guidelines and still succeed. If that outcome was anything to go by, how do schools in Equestria even succeed if the students have a fair chance of disliking their experiences? And if the students and teachers are doing their things and still enjoying it, do the teaching methods really matter as long as they work? It’s not like they were doing something questionable or life-threatening. Too bad the EEA don’t and won’t give a response to any of those questions.

 

Since the EEA, or just the chancellor, will be checking in later during the day to see how things are going down at the new school, more trouble must come up as fiction is all about having problems to later solve. And it immediately starts with the most obvious problem, which is the students cutting class. The quickly encounter Fluttershy, and the Changeling immediately disguises herself as Rarity claiming to take the students on a field trip about generosity while also saying that they will be looking at their reflections at a lake. That statement is too nonsensical, which does make some sense as this encounter was sudden, and the Changeling wouldn’t know Rarity that well, but it’s still a tad ridiculous that Fluttershy bought the equally ridiculous statement. However, Angel is suspicious, but too bad he never got the chance to expose them.

 

The students hang out at a lake and start to get along after spending time with each other.. Insert comment here about the irony of the students being able to form a friendship after ditching the School of Friendship. Meanwhile, Neighsay shows up while they were gone. Obviously. RD discovers that the Student 6 are missing, so she, Starlight, and Twilight keep Neighsay busy to stall for time. Neighsay eventually discovers this tactic, so Twilight proceeds with Friends and Family Day. However, the Changeling has transformed into a giant bug for the amusement of her (not quite yet) friends, which causes the ponies below to believe there’s a monster attack and panic about, and then a disaster happens with parts of the school falling apart since the Changeling crashed.

 

Neighsay then becomes enraged after learning from Twilight about non-ponies being enrolled at the school. Insert comment here about the irony of a chancellor wanting his instructions to be followed, but that chancellor completely neglected to comprehend the instructions of a new school. It just goes to show that quickly flipping through a book isn’t helpful. He even calls the other creatures dangerous, and he’s only right when it comes to the griffons (Gilda is one other griffon friend at the very least, and even then I doubt any griffon wants the ponies dead). The yaks allied with the ponies in season 5, dragons (or at least Ember) and Changelings (or at least Thorax) allied with the ponies in season 6, and the Queen Novo is familiar with Princess Celestia unless the hippogriffs held an off-screen grudge. Twilight retorts that friendship is for everyone to learn, but Neighsay thinks that the other creatures might try to use what they’ve learned against the ponies. He probably means that the others might try to take advantage of a pony’s trust to later and more easily backstab the pony when that pony least expects it, which may be a fair point, but that concern easily gets shot down when that kind of stuff could happen between any set of friends. Like I said, I have no idea what that guy was thinking, and he doesn’t use anything to support his nonsensical stance outside of his authority. The other creatures leave in a huff, and I’m pretty sure they’re holding a grudge against ponies when it was only Neighsay that was being vocal and provocative. But I guess there’s something about one pony representing the rest of his kind, so whatever. At least Thorax’s response was more reasonable.

 

Twilight tries to threaten Neighsay by reporting to Princess Celestia of this development, but couldn’t Twilight assert her own authority? She’s a fucking princess, too!

I had a discussion with @Cinder Vel about the episode, and he pointed out that a ruler being able to shoot down any decisions from the EEA can make the EEA pointless. That’s a good point, but the problem of show still being more interested in saying what Celestia can’t do while not showing what she can do still remains.

 

Then again, considering that the other princesses of Equestria tend to be powerless against, well – everything, maybe Twilight being powerless in this scenario as well isn’t that unreasonable. Neighsay shoots back by reminding her of all the problems that just happened (in his words, irresponsible teachers, students skipping class, and ponies being endangered), and I guess he might have a point. However, I find it hard to believe that the approved schools NEVER had these kinds of problems as Equestria is hardly a utopia, and I think one strength of a school stems from how well the school can handle these problems and still function, but whatever again. As a result, he closes down the school. As if a character like him would have served any other purpose in the episode.

 

Next part. Twilight is pretty miserable and has been stuck in her bed for who-knows-how-long, thinking that she made a bunch of awful mistakes and failed to do anything right. She mentioned making enemies with Equestria’s allies, but that was more on Neighsay’s part. Then again, she can feel responsible for letting him do what he did. She also thinks that she upset her friends, but that's definitely not the case unless she feels that she failed that horribly. And then her friends (ponies and Spike) show up immediately after to try and cheer her up (to no avail) with no signs of a grudge or hostility. I have no idea why she thought she upset her friends, then. Twilight decides that she needs some time to herself and visits the school. The school is shown to be on top of a hill next to Twilight’s castle, but I’m pretty sure that hill wasn’t there before. Maybe the ponies grew a hill specifically for that new school to be built on.

 

Starlight shows up and instead of trying to cheer up Twilight, she decides to be honest with Twilight and tell her that following the EEA was a dumb idea. Starlight even muses that she herself was a disaster (what an understatement) that was eventually fixed after some guidance from Twilight, so this obstacle isn’t impossible to overcome. Starlight also claims, and I quote, that Twilight is in charge of all the friendship in Equestria. Taking that sentence at face value, that sounds like Twilight would decide which ponies become friends with each other or how friendships should work, which is definitely not her role as Twilight is more about spreading the idea of and encouraging friendship, but I’ll assume my latter guess is what Starlight meant. Anyways, Starlight sees that Twilight’s school isn’t a conventional one, and teaching and spreading friendship is too much of a worthwhile endeavor to abandon, so she encourages Twilight to screw the EEA and do things as she sees fit. And Twilight finds herself with renewed vigor. She sure didn’t take long to recover, and I’m pretty sure fixes like this are normally not that easy, but I guess the episode can’t take spend too much time on this as school must continue, so whatever. At the very least, it’s a nice little scene between the two as it’s a way of showing that the two have truly become close with Starlight giving back to Twilight by offering constructive criticism and encouragement as well as taking to heart her experiences with friendship and with Twilight.

 

However, I have two problems with this scene. The first is that Twilight’s friends appear shallow. They essentially tell her to get out of bed, cheer up, and be happy. You know, tactics that NEVER WORK, and I don’t just mean in fiction. If you see a person fail miserably at something with their mood dampening accordingly, would telling them to cheer up and be happy really work? No shit that it won’t because the person’s problems haven’t been solved or even tackled in some way. Compounding my problem with the scene is that they are her closest friends and even family to her, so why weren’t they willing to ask her if she could talk about her feelings and how they could try to help her through her problems? This was scene was definitely an attempt to show how far Starlight has come and maybe even that there is something Starlight can do that the others couldn’t, but I can’t figure out what that is, so the scene doesn’t work as well as it should have because it was at the expense of those other relevant characters, especially when those relevant characters didn’t muster up much effort in trying to help Twilight. And I even feel that at least one of the characters could’ve even done what Starlight did. AJ for example is the element of honesty, which means telling a hard truth. She did that in her season 4 key episode, so this concept isn’t foreign to her. Fluttershy figured that their current method for running the school was inefficient, so she could’ve said something. All of them knew that things weren’t working out for anyone, and being close friends means that expressing their inner feelings to each other should always be an option (“Green Isn’t Your Color” was about that). Of course, actually being able to actually do that isn’t so easy, but not considering the option to actually have Twilight talk about her feelings is still an issue. I don’t know how this scene could’ve been done differently, but the bottom line is that Twilight’s friends had to half-ass their efforts so Starlight would have an excuse to intervene.

 

My second problem with this scene sounds petty (and is more of a flaw of the show), but I’m gonna say it anyways. Why the hell did Twilight never get a moment like this with Celestia? In fact, why the hell did the show never let Twilight interact with Celestia? Sure there were moments of interaction, but they were too minor and don’t help either characters. The two did get some personal interactions. TWICE. In the entire show. So 2 interactions out of almost 200 episodes as of this writing. That should speak for itself.  The first was way back in season 2 with “Lesson Zero”, and that actually should’ve been start of doing more between the two as Twilight’s problems in that episode stemmed from fear of disappointing Celestia. The second interaction happens later in the season during the episode “Horse Play” later during this season, but I’ve already given my say about that. To sum it up, it does nothing for Celestia because the show fucked her up beyond repair. In a way, my initial question must sound strange as Twilight is always helping Celestia, but the reverse doesn’t happen nearly as often because Twilight solving yet another one of Celestia’s problems doesn’t make Twilight look effective and rather makes the latter look ineffective. So I’m really posing that question under the assumption that Celestia has been a major help to Twilight, thus my true complaint is that Starlight gets to interact and have personal moments with Twilight, but the show didn’t let Twilight do the same with Princess Celestia. Wouldn’t it have been enlightening and maybe even eye-opening  to be able to compare and contrast the two relationships, the two different methods of learning and teaching (both ways), and see how Twilight applied what she gathered from her own experience with Celestia?

 

Twilight enters the throne room and declares to her friends that she wants to try again with the School of Friendship. By the way, what were her friends supposed to be doing in there? Last time, they were in Twilight’s room and failed to cheer her up. Now, they’re goofing off in the throne room. I don’t know what would cause them to go from being at Twilight’s room and showing concern to this. I hope they were thinking of what to do next for Twilight while killing time at the very least. Anyways, they don’t take the news too well with RD immediately recounting her negative experience as a teacher, and it’s still weird that she and the others don’t remember that their classes went more positively at first, so Twilight’s intervention apparently must have hit them that hard. But Twilight admits that following the EEA instead of her friends was a dumb move and allows them to teach as they please.

 

But the school still isn’t approved and lost all of its students. Twilight’s friends attempt to get back the foreign students, but no such luck because those students ditched their homes to stay together. The closure of the school came rather suddenly, and the Student 6 were goofing off right before that happened, so I don’t know how they managed to plan their escape to a specific location so easily.

 

The representatives and/or leaders from the other kingdoms head to the Canterlot throne room (too bad Queen Novo couldn’t bother showing her face despite her niece being missing) to threaten war at each other for possibly hiding (or maybe kidnapping) the students. All that just for one motherfucker (from each kingdom)? They didn’t even think of finding more clues. Twilight even remarked that the students learned friendship since they wanted to stay together. Even though that remark doesn’t immediately help or even prove anything because there is still a chance of one of the kingdoms having kidnapped them from the representatives’ POV,  it hardly looks like any of them put much thought into their actions and decisions. They’re really just looking for an excuse to attack because they’re apparently not as civilized as the ponies who more frequently practice friendship. And if a war did break out, I doubt Princess Celestia would survive. Note that I said Celestia, not Equestria. That alicorn is fucking worthless, remember? It wouldn’t be above the writers to have her killed to emphasize the gravity of a situation because they pull a similar stunt like that all the time. By the way, is that old griffon really the leader or an important figure in Griffonstone? Season 5 hardly suggested either of those.

 

Princess Celestia tells Twilight to find the missing students. By the way, the only thing Princess Celestia does in this 2-part episode is talk. So, she (and Luna) will continue to sit on their asses as usual in a 2-part episode. At least the show is consistent with making sure useless high authority figures stay useless.

 

The main characters try to figure things out at Sugarcube Corner, and the pony of the Student 6 happens to show up for an order of cupcakes. What a nice coincidence. Twilight and co. could have just as easily done their discussion in the crystal castle, but they do it at Sugarcube Corner so they’ll be able to meet a pony student who wants a food item that can be also be obtained from Sugarcube Corner. That pony student could’ve gotten anything else like hayburgers and fries for his group and never encounter the Mane 6, leaving them to a possible wild goose chase. AJ and Rarity noted that they saw that pony student getting other items, but they didn’t figure out what he might have been up to until Pinkie mentioned what he might be doing with the cupcakes. Like I said, if that pony student didn’t show his face to order cupcakes, the Mane 6 would’ve been stuck.

 

We cut to the students hanging out at the Castle of the Two Sisters, and I don’t know the in-universe reason for choosing to stay there. The out-of-universe explanation is that the castle is in the Everfree Forest, a mysterious and potentially dangerous area, which would give the episode an excuse to get the Student 6 into trouble so the Mane 6 can find and rescue them. And that’s what happens. A bunch of wild creatures attack them, and the students don’t know how to answer the situation. The yak student even declares that they will stay together and they put their front limbs together as a visual sign of that declaration, which doesn’t solve anything, so I don’t know what they were hoping for. But like I said, the Mane 6 show up to rescue them and send away the wild creatures. Seeing their teachers in action finally gets the students to respect them (good  thing they haven’t heard anything good about the alicorn sisters because if they did, they’d be sorely disappointed). It’s still strange that literally everyone forgot about the initially positive experience at the school, but whatever again. The students are convinced to come back to the school so they can continue to stick together, which is where we cut to next.

 

Twilight clears Neighsay’s magical lock on the school, which causes him to show up right afterward. Too bad a certain princess or 2 isn’t this active when they perceive trouble. He goes on a tirade about what he observed during the last 3 minutes of the part 1 of the episode, and claims that the school was too much of a disaster to keep around. Insert comment about the irony of the school being a disaster because it followed the EEA regulations. And Neighsay somehow thinks it’s smart to provoke the foreigners again. He was apparently oblivious to their angry reactions from the previous episode, but his move is still a stupid one in and of itself. But Twilight shoots back by saying that the school doesn’t need the EEA’s approval to function. She also comments, and I quote, that every friendship is special, so the way they teach it has to be just as unique. I don’t know how much water that statement holds, but she should’ve said that friendship is such a social concept that it needs to be experienced as lecturing in front of a classroom can only do so much. Princess Celestia steps in and reminds Neighsay that different species of ponies had to change their lifestyles to accommodate each other. One might be tempted to say that Celestia did contribute something by saying that line, but I can’t figure out what that might be as any other pony (i.e. Twilight) could’ve said that line to the same effect. Neighsay then leaves in a huff because there’s nothing he can do at this point.

 

The school is reopened, and the characters sing a musical number about enjoying themselves (again). There was a scene with Starlight at a classroom in front of the students, so it looks like she’ll be doing her share of teaching as well. And the foreign students stick around. I mean, what would’ve been the point of giving them all this screentime if they were going to quickly leave?

 

I can’t say that I care much for the episode because it introduces some new gimmicks (i.e. a school of friendship and a newly formed group of friends) when it had (emphasis) better things to do, e.g. expanding on alicorn lore. But nope. Even in this episode, being an alicorn princess still meant nothing.

 

The show generally likes to do something huge and even status-quo-shattering in its 2-part episodes, and “School Daze” was no different. It’s just too bad that their attempts at doing something huge and status-quo-changing have always failed even if the episode itself wasn’t bad because of some unintentional stupidity that the show has already established. And it’s not like the show can ignore the major changes and events that previously happened because that would mean a colossal waste of time, effort, and resources. The only way I could actually care about the changes that happened in this episode even a little bit is for the show as it is to be transformed into a completely different show.

 

And even though the episode didn’t have a big entity of darkness trying to destroy or conquer Equestria, it isn’t too different from a typical 2-parter with Twilight getting the lion’s share of the focus because she’s the princess of friendship and also wielding powerful magic, the other alicorns doing nothing, and Twilight’s friends getting only slightly more to do than the other alicorns so they don’t end up looking completely useless since they’re also main characters. Starlight got noticeably more meaningful screentime than the others in this episode, which I already gave my thoughts on. Sure, Twilight’s friends get to work at the school, but who else would the workers be? Otherwise, more screentime would need to be devoted to more new characters. Certain characters have already been screwed over by a lack of attention over many previous seasons, and introducing more new characters (including the students) would only compound the problem.

 

One last thing I could comment on is about Chancellor Neighsay since he and his attitude got plenty of focus. And the episode went out of its way to emphasize his stiff and racist mentality, so that’s a decent start. I don’t know if his stupidity is intentional or not however, but I will still say that I found it kind of annoying and even unreasonable. For example, he didn’t even think about what having a school that mainly teaches friendship would entail. A way for ponies to protect themselves from dangerous enemies? Really? Twilight even mentioned Friends and Family Day, so what did he think the event would be about? Why would it be about friends and families in a (friendly or not) duel to showcase their combative prowess? Then, he thinks that other species might try to use friendship against them, which may sound reasonable on paper, but that can also happen between pony friends themselves. And why does he think that ponies are superior to other species? Beats me. He also thinks that insulting the other species in front of their faces won’t lead to trouble. If one of them does retaliate, he would just say, “See? I told you they were dangerous!” while being oblivious to the fact that he was picking a fight. I don’t know what purpose Neighsay was supposed to serve other than to be a dick, and the lack of insight into his opinions don’t help.

 

The main characters struggling to work in a school for the first time would have been enough of a conflict for the episode. Neighsay may have said that the teachers were unqualified, and he might be right in a sense because the students were falling asleep and cutting class, but that notion gets shot down when the musical montage first showed the students and teachers doing well, so the Mane 6 was doing something right before Twilight stepped in. The episode could’ve just started with the Mane 6 immediately teaching according to EEA guidelines and then showing all of the trouble that ensued. Of course, there’s the question of how any school manages to stick around if such guidelines for teaching seemed so ineffective, but that’s a question for another time. If the Mane 6, especially Twilight, later finds out that nobody was interesting in attending the school, Neighsay’s first 2 reasons for closing down the school (irresponsible teachers and students skipping class) could hold more water.

 

Other than what I’ve already commented on while recapping the episode, there isn’t much else I can add at the moment. Was it bad? I can’t say that it was awful in the same vein as “Twilight’s Kingdom” or “The Cutie Re-Mark”. But I can’t label it as good since it definitely didn’t interest me for reasons I’ve already given. Then again, the episode came way past the show’s last chance to be a great show, and now it’s stuck with the bullshit it has long built.

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20 hours ago, Number95 said:

Surprisingly, the episode starts off by referencing the theatrical movie

This is why I defend primary and secondary canons. This time the writers are making a point of referencing the movie. Likely because their overlords wanted to make sure kiddies knew the movie was a thing, but whatever.

The EEA... It was likely one of the most asinine things out of this cartoon. I understand the need for it to exist, and to be able to do things no non-government institution should be able to do, but with the anemic payoff for all the shenanigans around the school and students... It's a shame all around.

I'm not even going to comment on Celestia... It's beating a dead horse by now.

21 hours ago, Number95 said:

Was it bad?

No. It wasn't. The problem with it, as in with most things MLP tried to do that had a inch of depth, it went nowhere, became a mess and the producers pretended they told a story.

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22 hours ago, Number95 said:

...

My second problem with this scene sounds petty (and is more of a flaw of the show), but I’m gonna say it anyways. Why the hell did Twilight never get a moment like this with Celestia? In fact, why the hell did the show never let Twilight interact with Celestia? Sure there were moments of interaction, but they were too minor and don’t help either characters. The two did get some personal interactions. TWICE. In the entire show. So 2 interactions out of almost 200 episodes as of this writing. That should speak for itself.  The first was way back in season 2 with “Lesson Zero”, and that actually should’ve been start of doing more between the two as Twilight’s problems in that episode stemmed from fear of disappointing Celestia. The second interaction happens later in the season during the episode “Horse Play” later during this season, but I’ve already given my say about that. To sum it up, it does nothing for Celestia because the show fucked her up beyond repair. In a way, my initial question must sound strange as Twilight is always helping Celestia, but the reverse doesn’t happen nearly as often because Twilight solving yet another one of Celestia’s problems doesn’t make Twilight look effective and rather makes the latter look ineffective. So I’m really posing that question under the assumption that Celestia has been a major help to Twilight, thus my true complaint is that Starlight gets to interact and have personal moments with Twilight, but the show didn’t let Twilight do the same with Princess Celestia. Wouldn’t it have been enlightening and maybe even eye-opening  to be able to compare and contrast the two relationships, the two different methods of learning and teaching (both ways), and see how Twilight applied what she gathered from her own experience with Celestia?

...

I probably wouldn't have had much of a problem with it if Starlight circa Season 6 wasn't as bungled as Celestia from Season 3 on. Granted, it would still sting, but at least it would soften the blow.

And reading that paragraph made me depressed. Nine years of wasted potential. Dang, man.

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23 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

I'm not even going to comment on Celestia... It's beating a dead horse by now.

It is, but that doesn't excuse the results for being stupid.

23 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

No. It wasn't. The problem with it, as in with most things MLP tried to do that had a inch of depth, it went nowhere, became a mess and the producers pretended they told a story. 

Did season 8 do much with the School of Friendship?

22 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

I probably wouldn't have had much of a problem with it if Starlight circa Season 6 wasn't as bungled as Celestia from Season 3 on. Granted, it would still sting, but at least it would soften the blow.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I understand.

22 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

And reading that paragraph made me depressed. Nine years of wasted potential. Dang, man. 

It just goes to show that 9+ years and 9 seasons can still result in accomplishing nothing, and there's nothing I hate more than wasted potential. I know that season 9 hasn't aired yet, but it still won't help the show no matter what it tries.

On a sidenote, I can't believe how many dumb grammatical mistakes I made. Too bad the I can't edit that post, but somehow I can edit my other posts (including this one) for whatever reason.

Edited by Number95
more grammar mistakes
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2 hours ago, Number95 said:

...

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I understand.

...

 

I was referring to Starlight's character development in Season 6, which I found to be unsatisfactory. Had it been slightly better, it would have given her interactions with Twilight a bit more emotional impact.

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@Number95 Oh, and to further elaborate, it would have given a fresh start on the student/teacher dynamic the show was going for. Which gets muddied considering a) they should have perfected it with Twilight and Celestia in the first place and b) they kind of dropped the ball again with that same concept.

Sorry for the double post, BTW.

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4 hours ago, Number95 said:

It is, but that doesn't excuse the results for being stupid.

Absolutely not. What I meant is that I'm tired of complaining about it.

4 hours ago, Number95 said:

Did season 8 do much with the School of Friendship?

In my opinion, a little, but not enough. Not to mention that a couple of episodes that turned the students into a mass of the same character over and over, the school was barely relevant other than serving as backdrop for a story or two. Honestly, most of the season was somewhat forgettable to me.

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3 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

I was referring to Starlight's character development in Season 6, which I found to be unsatisfactory. Had it been slightly better, it would have given her interactions with Twilight a bit more emotional impact.

 

2 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

@Number95 Oh, and to further elaborate, it would have given a fresh start on the student/teacher dynamic the show was going for. Which gets muddied considering a) they should have perfected it with Twilight and Celestia in the first place and b) they kind of dropped the ball again with that same concept.

Starlight's lack of appearances in season 6 certainly didn't help my opinion of her, but I don't know if getting more appearances would've helped at all as I don't care about Starlight anyways.

I doubt the show ever wanted to feature a student/teacher dynamic as it never really bothered to do anything between Twilight and Princess Celestia. It only happened to whatever degree between Twilight and Starlight because the latter established a connection with the former (i.e. the main character) of the show.

1 hour ago, Metemponychosis said:

Absolutely not. What I meant is that I'm tired of complaining about it.

I suppose I am, too, but it wouldn't be me if I didn't bitch about the stupidity.

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@Number95 Celestia and Sunset end up meeting again Celestia forgives Sunset, but even that is all for about a minute tops before they get back to the plot. So, probably not, unless you have nothing else better to do for an hour and a half.

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@WaterPulse @Metemponychosis

Sounds like the special is worse than a waste of time. 

 

On 3/7/2019 at 5:32 PM, WaterPulse said:

@Number95 Celestia and Sunset end up meeting again Celestia forgives Sunset, but even that is all for about a minute tops before they get back to the plot. So, probably not, unless you have nothing else better to do for an hour and a half.

It would've been fine if they just wanted to use Celestia for later, but given the nature of this incarnation of MLP, it is definitely more like they finally remembered that Princess Celestia was relevant in Sunset's life. There's no way they can actually make productive use of one minute of screentiime for a character like Princess Celestia, but I'm not surprised at her lack of screentime anyways.

I just checked the transcript on the MLP wiki, and of course, Celestia doesn't know the answer to the problem. What else would they have her do, especially in just under one fucking minute?

Also, I thought the special was only 44 minutes long. Were there other specials that tied very directly into "Forgotten Friendship"?

 

EDIT: @WaterPulse What did you personally think of the special, anyways?

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1 minute ago, Number95 said:

...

Also, I thought the special was only 44 minutes long. Were there other specials that tied very directly into "Forgotten Friendship"?

That special was 44 minutes? I must have overestimated the length. My apologies for that mistake.

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@Number95

Also, yeah, having it as a minute long footnote kind of feels like a slap in the face for those invested in the character. An unintentional one, most likely, but one, nonetheless.

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10 hours ago, Number95 said:

Sounds like the special is worse than a waste of time. 

To me, personally, it would be because I think that Equestria Girls is one of the biggest problems with the franchise and I couldn't care less if all involved died in a fire. I might've been interested in Celestia's involvement if I thought that the producers gave two fucks about her or anything she could do. But I can't see their Celestia having any more character in her other than, of course, forgiving Sunset Glimmer, I mean, Sunset Shimmer.

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On 3/9/2019 at 9:37 PM, WaterPulse said:

@Number95

Also, yeah, having it as a minute long footnote kind of feels like a slap in the face for those invested in the character. An unintentional one, most likely, but one, nonetheless.

I feel that it could even be insulting to Sunset fans, or at least fans who wanted to see her return to Princess Celestia. What could the writers actually do in one minute? There definitely wouldn't be time for catching up or even a heart-to-heart, and the transcript reflects that as all the two do together is acknowledge some change in each other. As if that's somehow enough to justify a scene of their reunion. Sunset even claimed that Celestia grew a sense of humor, but that ended up being a throwaway line as the show has done little to nothing productive with the latter. And Sunset definitely won't stick around in Equestria as that would mean the end of Equestria Girls since she's also its main character.

On 3/10/2019 at 9:29 AM, Metemponychosis said:

To me, personally, it would be because I think that Equestria Girls is one of the biggest problems with the franchise and I couldn't care less if all involved died in a fire. I might've been interested in Celestia's involvement if I thought that the producers gave two fucks about her or anything she could do. But I can't see their Celestia having any more character in her other than, of course, forgiving Sunset Glimmer, I mean, Sunset Shimmer.

What would that problem be?

And you're right about Princess Celestia if the transcript is anything to go by. Outside of acknowledging Sunset having changed, she also forgives Sunset, and that's it. They brought in Celestia just to do the bare minimum, and as @WaterPulse said, all in one minute. Princess Celestia wasn't even needed then. If Sunset did go back to Equestria for whatever reason, even temporarily, there would be something of an obligation for the storytellers to acknowledge her history with Celestia. But they might as well have let Sunset (consciously or not) decide to avoid her if one minute was all they were getting together.

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@Number95

As for my thoughts on the special: to be honest, outside the Celestia bit, I haven't read much into it. I know, that's probably contradicting my previous comment on how it's only worth watching if you have nothing else better to do. The concept, at least, seems interesting.

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20 hours ago, Number95 said:

What would that problem be?

And you're right about Princess Celestia if the transcript is anything to go by. Outside of acknowledging Sunset having changed, she also forgives Sunset, and that's it. They brought in Celestia just to do the bare minimum, and as @WaterPulse said, all in one minute. Princess Celestia wasn't even needed then. If Sunset did go back to Equestria for whatever reason, even temporarily, there would be something of an obligation for the storytellers to acknowledge her history with Celestia. But they might as well have let Sunset (consciously or not) decide to avoid her if one minute was all they were getting together.

Take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt because not only I know there are fine people in this forum that like it, but I also dislike it on personal level.

Equestria Girls only exists because Hasbro wanted a cartoon to occupy that niche. They leeched off their IP since it was already famous and the thing clung to MLP like a tumor. Maybe it's because I'm too enamored with the concept that an author should be impassioned with their creation and also it's actual owner, but the whole idea gives me the creeps.

I'm probably too harsh on it, though, but when I first watched it, I thought it was the most bland waste I'd ever seen, that it made poor use of our beloved characters and amounted to an official fanfiction. Which is ironic, since I love alternate universe fanfiction. The only good things about it were the things that were already great in the main series, such as the music and voice acting.

One final reason is that when it was first announced, I thought it was actually going to be about ponies, that it was going to show more of their world and build on it. I thought it was an opportunity to properly do one of these 'epic' season opener and finale stories.

Finally... Princess Celestia, the ruler of a nation for a millennium, wise and caring, one who literally made the sun move in the sky, reduced to a school principal. Fuck that. If there ever was one thing that showed how wrong these people think of her as a character, it had to be that.

 

Or the idea of the princesses retiring, and how asinine I expect the whole thing to be.

Thank Sheshat for fanfictions and people that actually care about these characters.

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On 3/13/2019 at 6:55 PM, WaterPulse said:

The concept, at least, seems interesting. 

That's MLP:FiM for me. A concept sounds interesting, but what's actually given isn't.

On 3/14/2019 at 11:19 AM, Metemponychosis said:

Equestria Girls only exists because Hasbro wanted a cartoon to occupy that niche. They leeched off their IP since it was already famous and the thing clung to MLP like a tumor.

When it comes to almost anything, it exists to make money. I think that's actually more reasonable than it seems. People like money, but they also need money to buy and make more things. And just because something is made with the intention of a profit, that doesn't mean quality must be thrown out.

On 3/14/2019 at 11:19 AM, Metemponychosis said:

Maybe it's because I'm too enamored with the concept that an author should be impassioned with their creation and also it's actual owner, but the whole idea gives me the creeps. 

I think you already know what I'll say. At least, I hope the creative team for this show does the same.

On 3/14/2019 at 11:19 AM, Metemponychosis said:

I'm probably too harsh on it, though, but when I first watched it, I thought it was the most bland waste I'd ever seen, that it made poor use of our beloved characters and amounted to an official fanfiction. Which is ironic, since I love alternate universe fanfiction. The only good things about it were the things that were already great in the main series, such as the music and voice acting.

One final reason is that when it was first announced, I thought it was actually going to be about ponies, that it was going to show more of their world and build on it. I thought it was an opportunity to properly do one of these 'epic' season opener and finale stories.

It has been a while since I've watched the movies (I've only seen the first 3), but I know that in terms of trying to do something with the same scope as the 2-part episodes, they're more of the same despite having more time. The Celestia and Luna in the EQG universe are as worthless as their pony counterparts, the main characters who aren't Twilight or Sunset still do nothing, and the villains (sans Principal Cinch, who I thought was a serviceable antagonist) are lame and still participate in unexciting final showdowns.

On 3/14/2019 at 11:19 AM, Metemponychosis said:

Finally... Princess Celestia, the ruler of a nation for a millennium, wise and caring, one who literally made the sun move in the sky, reduced to a school principal. Fuck that. If there ever was one thing that showed how wrong these people think of her as a character, it had to be that. 

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Or the idea of the princesses retiring, and how asinine I expect the whole thing to be.

Thank Sheshat for fanfictions and people that actually care about these characters.

Personally, I would actually accept Celestia being a school principal assuming she wouldn't be inactive, but you know how that turned out. As for being "reduced to a school principal," it's not like she was ever worth something in Equestria.

As for the princesses' retirement, I'm sure their intention was to show that the Mane 6 earned this position, but given how much the princesses not named Twilight suck anyways, it just looks like the princesses are giving up positions that don't fit them. The episodes will also try to say that the Mane 6 have a lot to live up to as well as major responsibilities, which just means they'll definitely be more beneficial to Equestria than Celestia and Luna ever were. I mean, they are already better for Equestria than Celestia and Luna. The show would also like to say that the alicorn sisters are tall figures but have limitations, so more ordinary ponies can actually be better than those tall figures in some respects. Except the show never proved that those sisters' effectiveness. At least Luna helps ponies in their dreams, so that's something even though it still amounts to nothing. And I bet they can't even name one thing that Celestia is better than Twilight at.

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On 3/17/2019 at 4:52 PM, Number95 said:

Personally, I would actually accept Celestia being a school principal assuming she wouldn't be inactive, but you know how that turned out. As for being "reduced to a school principal," it's not like she was ever worth something in Equestria.

I think this is wrong. Even if in the execution end of things, conceptually, they are very different characters. For the sake of the argument, I'll ignore all the criticisms of the execution. First of all, the real Celestia is supposed to be something like a school principal, and she took Twilight as a personal student because she was special. But additionally, the pony is the ruler of a nation, and takes care of making the day. And that is the bare minimum. With some good will, one could add to that.

Maybe I'm missing something about the character in EG, but I really don't care about it. She could be the Amun-Ra of that universe, I don't care about her. Well, maybe that is the problem. They wanted to do the useless mundane school director and were stuck with the Celestia Lauren had created.

On 3/17/2019 at 4:52 PM, Number95 said:

As for the princesses' retirement, I'm sure their intention was to show that the Mane 6 earned this position, but given how much the princesses not named Twilight suck anyways, it just looks like the princesses are giving up positions that don't fit them. The episodes will also try to say that the Mane 6 have a lot to live up to as well as major responsibilities, which just means they'll definitely be more beneficial to Equestria than Celestia and Luna ever were. I mean, they are already better for Equestria than Celestia and Luna.

I never got that far in the trailers because I rather not know the details ahead of time. And it doesn't matter. It's the same as almost every season starter. An idea that could be interesting but the cartoon killed it a long time ago because it never bothered to be a thing before. Who cares Celestia and Luna are retiring? Most of the time their presence is never important, and I called that at season 4. All of the people who cared about it did. They never said that they would like to retire. Never said that they would NOT want to retire. It means nothing. It's the typical 'woooo wow' to throw at the cartoon and pretend that DHX is telling a story. How many times had the Sisters been gone and it meant nothing? It's embarrassing.

 

But I'm still going to watch it.And I'm still going to like it, because this crap is going to be such a little, unimportant thing in the long run. It's like particularly bad Stockholm Syndrome.

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