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Season 9, Episode 13: Between Dark and Dawn

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Title: Between Dark and Dawn

Synopsis: Luna and Celestia take a “bucket-list”sister vacation while Twilight and her friends struggle to cover the princesses' many royal duties alone.

Airs: Today at 11:30 A.M. on Discovery Family

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A clusterfuck. I'm tired of ranting about this episode on the other forum and I know people are going to ridicule that enough. Suffice to say that it failed to make a good story about the sisters, about Twilight and her friends doing the sister's job, made a parody of the sisters, and further bastardized everything that it should be trying to give importance to. I don't understand why Celestia is so hard for this cartoon. I can barely define what is it that she and Luna do and where the two meet.

And of course, the fandom loved it.

Seriously, I hope Celestia is nowhere near G5.

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If I ignore how the writing for Celestia and Luna has been handled since Season 6, I think this one was okay.

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@Metemponychosis I haven't read your post here yet because i haven't seen the episode yet. And judging by your late posts on the topics for the last 4 episode i think i'm safe to make the assumption you have watched them later. (But i coupd be wrong about this, of course)

 

But daaaaaang, an episode which is probably gonna shit all over Celestia and partly Luna too again and you're right on the frontlines. xD

 

And you also made quite a few comments about Celestia in your reviews of the recent episodes, so that also makes me belive that you're craving for something that finally treats Celestia well and gives her some importance and presence as a character in the show. Even though the chances for that are as good as non existent that late in the show, sadly.

 

Anyway, gonna watch it soon, i hope. I don't expect much of it.

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I guess because i don't have any strong feelings about Celestia's character i didn't take offence to her portrayal in this episode, unlike some people. In fact it made sense to me, why? Because Celestia seems like the kind of pony who isn't a very serious (this has been hinted at in the episodes) but tries to act that way because she's the ruler. Then in season 9 her and Luna help the mane six out by keeping the everfree frost under control, this reminded her of times when she wasn't such a serious pony and lead to her wanted to go on adventures like she used to. 

 

I also think that Celly might be having a midlife crisis since many people will try to re-live their youth when going threw a midlife crisis but that's just my head canon. As for Luna i really liked seeing her get amazed by the mail system, sure it's been a few years since she came back from the moon, but i doubt she had time to send a letter until she went on holiday; also i could relate to her just wanting to relax. 

 

As for the mane six doing the swan event, well, i enjoyed it. Was it anymore than a comedy scene? no. But personally i don't think it had to be anymore, it was funny and i laughed. The only thing i didn't like was Twilight not getting help, i mean Celly and Luna as Twilight for help ALL THE TIME, why would she think they don't ask for help?

 

It was a fun episode for me and i liked seeing more of Luna and celly (more so Luna because i like her more), if the episode cute the swan event out i think i might of enjoyed it more since i was hoping to see more princesses and less mane six (i like the mane six i just think their where in the episode more then they should of been).

 

Overall i give it a 7.5/10, not my fave episode of the season but enjoyable none the less :lunadance:

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@WaterPulse@Metemponychosis

It sounds like the episode wasn't so good, and I can't say that I'm surprised because I don't know how one fixes 9 years of fuck ups.

3 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

Seriously, I hope Celestia is nowhere near G5. 

I think Celestia in concept is fine. It's the creative team that needs to stay away from the alicorn sisters.

1 hour ago, WaterPulse said:

If I ignore how the writing for Celestia and Luna has been handled since Season 6, I think this one was okay.

Since season 6? I don't think they were ever handled well outside of rather minor moments in the case of Celestia and outside of CMC dream episodes for Luna. I guess Celestia may have been fine in season 1, but the show's later fuck ups just make her season 1 self look worse or at the very least not help her season 1 self.

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1 hour ago, Leonbrony17 said:

@Metemponychosis I haven't read your post here yet because i haven't seen the episode yet. And judging by your late posts on the topics for the last 4 episode i think i'm safe to make the assumption you have watched them later. (But i coupd be wrong about this, of course)

 

But daaaaaang, an episode which is probably gonna shit all over Celestia and partly Luna too again and you're right on the frontlines. xD

 

And you also made quite a few comments about Celestia in your reviews of the recent episodes, so that also makes me belive that you're craving for something that finally treats Celestia well and gives her some importance and presence as a character in the show. Even though the chances for that are as good as non existent that late in the show, sadly.

 

Anyway, gonna watch it soon, i hope. I don't expect much of it.

Real life getting in the way of ponies.:applebelch:

Well, I don't see those posts as reviews. Just my thoughts while I watched the episodes without too much time spent on them.

With that said, my problem with Celestia is that I see that the cartoon could do much better with her. It wasn't me that said that Celestia was the ruler of Equestria and then did everything in it's power to take her out of that position before even giving her a chance at that. As far as I'm concerned, she could simply be the weird pony in charge of the sun and this whole mess wouldn't exist.

@DoodleDotWhich is why the problem isn't her personality. The problem is that her personality is all there is about her. While the cartoon doesn't shy away from giving Luna several episodes about her power and several appearances doing her job quite well, the cartoon is still to show Celestia being competent at her own job, or even at anything by herself, while there are several episodes where she takes the fall for the sake of the plot. It's like saying that Celestia doesn't have any personal merits and all she does is sit her ass and get carried by the others.

Writers put characters spouting that somethings shouldn't be done by any one pony as though that fixes the issue, but they're missing the point. When Luna needs help to deal with Tantabus, we already know that she knows what she's doing with her power under normal circumstances, and needing help with the Tantabus shouldn't hurt anyone's perception of her abilities because of that.

With that example in mind, this last season said that the sisters are going to retire. For that to have any meaning, it needs to argue that two would be missed, but also that a sufficiently good replacement is needed. You can't really tell me how Celestia would be missed if the two sisters had died in the first episode, without resorting to vague rhetoric., particularly when we literally only seem Celestia in action when she was trying to do what Twilight and friends have been doing since the start of the cartoon.

And I don't know if you were talking about me, but it would be a fair assumption, since episodes about the two are typically very well received, but I'm not offended that Celestia sucks at everything. I'm offended that the writer thinks I'm an idiot and didn't really do anything new with the characters other than a straw man of what people were saying the characters needed.

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1 minute ago, Number95 said:

I think Celestia in concept is fine. It's the creative team that needs to stay away from the alicorn sisters.

Well, I agree. After all, even after all the butthurt, she's my favorite character, but if they're going to do the same, it's better to not do anything at all.

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The thing I hate most about episodes like this is that they are too, too easy to love. Again, Celestia and Luna act like such characters, the comedy and story write themselves. Like, it just feels unfair almost how this episode stole The Mean 6’s spot for my favorite midseason finale like a day at the beach. Only flaw I could find in this one was some parts being hurried along...for good reason. There is only so much awesomeness from Celestia and Luna you can cram into one single episode while still having a good subplot with Twilight and her friends that gives them a struggle, yet also shows them making character progress in the end with learning how to run a kingdom. There are too many killer moments in this episode, my personal favorites being Twilight thanking the rich ponies for the constructive criticism before tossing them out, Luna actually trying to make the post office sound thrilling, and the ending, which surprisingly transitioned well from being heartwarming to hilarious. Though the actual finale will obviously be what counts the most, I still appreciate how our last midseason finale was divine. 

Oh yeah, and this godly moment that was screencapped by yours truly wasn't bad either. :chillin:

https://derpibooru.org/2072865?q=King+Sombra

 

I had to update my latest theory accordingly, I am so nervouscited for the second half of the season. :yay:

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3 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

@DoodleDotWhich is why the problem isn't her personality. The problem is that her personality is all there is about her. While the cartoon doesn't shy away from giving Luna several episodes about her power and several appearances doing her job quite well, the cartoon is still to show Celestia being competent at her own job, or even at anything by herself, while there are several episodes where she takes the fall for the sake of the plot. It's like saying that Celestia doesn't have any personal merits and all she does is sit her ass and get carried by the others.

 

You do bring up a good point about Celly not doing much in the show but i can also see why they don't show her do much in the show, i mean what would she be doing? eating cake and writing tax forms? Maybe before the days of nightmare moon she had dome all sorts of things much like Twilight doe's today, but now she ether has more important boring things to do or just can't be fucked fighting evil so decided to make Twilight to that for her instead. 

 

3 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

Writers put characters spouting that somethings shouldn't be done by any one pony as though that fixes the issue, but they're missing the point. When Luna needs help to deal with Tantabus, we already know that she knows what she's doing with her power under normal circumstances, and needing help with the Tantabus shouldn't hurt anyone's perception of her abilities because of that.

With that example in mind, this last season said that the sisters are going to retire. For that to have any meaning, it needs to argue that two would be missed, but also that a sufficiently good replacement is needed. You can't really tell me how Celestia would be missed if the two sisters had died in the first episode, without resorting to vague rhetoric., particularly when we literally only seem Celestia in action when she was trying to do what Twilight and friends have been doing since the start of the cartoon.

 

That is true i wouldn't miss Celly all that much because as i said before i don't have any strong feelings towards her characters, but I guess if the show had her shown doing her job in a similar matter to what they had done with Luna i might give a shit about her; i give a shit about Luna so now i can see your point about wasted potential with Celly. 

 

3 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

And I don't know if you were talking about me, but it would be a fair assumption, since episodes about the two are typically very well received, but I'm not offended that Celestia sucks at everything. I'm offended that the writer thinks I'm an idiot and didn't really do anything new with the characters other than a straw man of what people were saying the characters needed.

 

I was kinda referencing you but also other fans since in the discord server i swore quite a few fans pissed off with this episode. As for the show thinking your an idiot, well it's a kids show. Yes it being a kid show doesn't excuse it from lacking any intelligence, but, also we got to remember a lot of the decisions made for the show are based on keeping that child friendly rating, and yes that could of still made Celly do more and keep the rating but it's too late for that. We only have half a season left and then G4 is dead. 

 

You have every right to be angry with how they have portrayed Celly thus far (I mean i am angry with how some characters have been handled myself) and i wouldn't worry about her being in G5 because from what i have seen, it's very unlikely G5 will have Alicorns. 

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So I did see the episode...

 

...well, aside from Twilie and friends going off the tracks with the whole swan ceremony thing. Not the brightest hour. Not the brightest one.

I'd say it was a case of Twilie attempting to chew off more than she and her friends can digest. All for the sake of proving that she and her friends can handle it when it is not entirely correct.

Not exactly good choice

Looks like the first experience of running Equestria is a first pancake for Twilie. Stress resistance and all.

 

must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie must not say bad things about Twilie

:twitwitch:

 

BUT CELLY? BUT LULU? HOW CAN I PHYSICALLY HANDLE ALL THIS TWO BEST SISTERS MATERIAL???

THIS EPISODE WAS OFFICIALLY HELLBENT ON TURNING CELESTIA AND LUNA INTO BESTIA AND...um...WOOONA! :P

I would list everything, but there just too much. Fans I am sure having too much fun digesting and utilizing all the stuff :3

Also, this:

large.png

Somepony suggested that she is afraid of them because they constantly bother her with their "Raise the sun!" signal:haha:

AND TWO BEST SISTERS HAD A SONG! CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?!

9/10, everypony!

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On 7/8/2019 at 7:34 AM, Light Blade said:

Somepony suggested that she is afraid of them because they constantly bother her with their "Raise the sun!" signal:haha:

 

Why didn't i think of that! :celestia: That makes so much sense.

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