Toki Zensekai

The Road to Overreactions - Miscommunication?

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Seems that today it will be masks. Tomorrow there will be armor updates, with stats, skins and new models. Day after tomorrow - more masks.

Looks like we will be getting another heist after that. May be a recreation of No Mercy hospital (but I think this will be Halloween update; or our Halloween update will be The Goat Heist - no one knows for sure) or First World Bank re-opening. That source is not as trustworthy as Lone Wolf from 4chan (who POSSIBLY is Ulf Andersson), but still was right about some things.

Ulf Andersson is not going to be Wolf's VA anymore, Wolf's mask has been removed from Starbreeze's store. And in the last trailer we have seen that one of robbers got caught at the Jewelry Store heist.

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Not to mention the content of those trucks ARE THOSE DAMNED SAFES WE WILL NEVER OPEN?!

Is this true? What sources are there about this? And what did you mean by "Custodied Wolf"?

IKR?! Whole thing is a huge flip off, they're passive-aggressively telling us that crates are here to say. "HEY GAIS! I HEARD YOU HATE MICROTRANSACTIONS AND CRATES  SO HERE'S A HEIST WHERE YOU GO SAVE THEM BECAUSE OVERPRICED DLC EVERY 2 MONTHS ISN'T ENOUGH FOR US! <3"

As for Wolf, basically what Apple said above. The VA for Wolf used to be a dev at Overkill, but he recently left the company so OVK seem to be convinced "taking care of Wolf" is a better idea than redoing his lines with another VA. Weather they'll kill him off or send him on a trip to the slammer is hard to tell, but if the Road to Crimefest is any indication they'll probably be replacing him with Clover or maybe Sidney. He's also the character with the least amount of lines.

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This game has gone to the dogs. If all Overkill wants are retarded CSGO losers with too much money and not enough brain, fine. That's not the Payday 2 I played, but apparently that doesn't exist anymore. I'm going to have to tell everyone who favorited my gun guides on steam, all 2021 of them, that I won't be updating the guide because of Overkill's atrocious business practices. 

Positive steam reviews are down to 82%, and user metacritic score is down to 5.5. Still nothing. What's it take?

Edited by SonataDusk
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This game has gone to the dogs. If all Overkill wants are retarded CSGO losers with too much money and not enough brain, fine. That's not the Payday 2 I played, but apparently that doesn't exist anymore. I'm going to have to tell everyone who favorited my gun guides on steam, all 2021 of them, that I won't be updating the guide because of Overkill's atrocious business practices. 

Positive steam reviews are down to 82%, and user metacritic score is down to 5.5. Still nothing. What's it take?

Agreed 100%. But the worst thing is that the update not only broke the weapon balance, but it also royally screwed up the modding community as well. A lot of mods have stopped working for the game, including Hoxhud which was developer approved of. The whole stat system as well is dead to. 

 

Its upsetting really. I just hate it when devs do this crap just to make a few more bucks. 

 

Edited by Sloterdijk

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We've read a lot of your feedback. We're aware that there are those of you who are unhappy or concerned about the Black Market update. Once Crimefest and all its content is out we’ll discuss this with you along with the other new features that were added. While we usually get back to you straight away when you have feedback, right now we’re busy as hell making sure we finish all the content we prepared on time.

Meanwhile, we'd like to clarify a few things that are being discussed:
 

  • Mods like Hoxhud and others for PAYDAY 2 are still accepted like before. The reason why some mods aren't working is that we made changes to the game code going into Crimefest that affected the functionality of some mods, as it does from time to time. Mods are still permitted like previously and we will continue to work with the modding community on ensuring that the process is as good as it can be and that they get the help they need.
     
  • The voice actors of Wolf and Bain. Ulf Andersson recently told us that he won’t continue voicing Wolf. We respect that and wish him the best. Just like we changed voice actors for Chains between PAYDAY: The Heist and PAYDAY 2 with the addition of Damion Poitier, we will look into what is the best way forward for Wolf, as he is very important and part of the original PAYDAY crew. Simon Viklund recently left us to pursue a career as a freelance game developer and composer. He continues working on PAYDAY 2 with us just like before, but on a freelance basis. Of course we want to keep him involved in PAYDAY 2; not only does he kick ass as Bain, he does kick-ass music like his latest addition ‘Utter Chaos’. And no, we're not removing any of the two characters from the game.
     
  • There's a bug on the merchandise store that makes Wolf's mask temporarily unavailable for purchase. We're looking into this with our external merchandise partner and will resolve it as soon as possible.

I wondered if this was what was going on.

What are your guy's thoughts?

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Here's the thing. The developers had EVERYTHING planned out from day 1 with Crimefest and while I am pretty sure they could take a few minutes out of their "busy schedule" to address the issue, they had a completely set schedule to adhere by to insure that every update and any inherent bug fixes were taken care of with each passing day of Crimefest, because heaven forbid if they happen to miss a single update for Crimefest.

And despite the massive rioting of the fanbase, Overkill is willing to lose a lot of dignity for the sake of releasing all their content for Crimefest. And even if they lose money on this deal, it's not going to hurt them in the slightest as seen in their fiscal report: http://media.starbreeze.com/2015/08/2015-08-27-Press-release-fourth-quarter-2014-2015.pdf

After having some time to actually calm down now after all of this I have been thinking a lot of this over, so please take the time to read this over.

After checking everything out, excluding the Black Market Update, the releases have been mediocre at best. The heist was extremely lackluster, and the weapon rebalances? Yeah, a lot of guns don't have the weight they use to be and other guns now are very viable (like most of the SMGs excluding the Pachette). But in reality of the situation, does it change up my gameplay at all? Not really, I still end heists with anywhere from 100 - 200+ kills, something I was doing before the update. The only difference now is in my choice of guns which has changed up a bit, but in reality, the way I play the game, hasn't changed.

Now for the Black Market Update. Yes, I hate it, everyone hates it, we all hate it. That's a given. Everyone has told us to not buy the drills, this is true. Especially considering that as everyone has started to investigate the stat boosts, they are very specific to the weapon you get. Which means if you have multiples of the same skin, it's always going to have that specific boost to it, no matter what. And those boosts? Pretty small in comparison. In fact, most weapons I've used have capped their accuracy or Stability at 100 and if a weapon skin associated to it had the same boost, it actually makes no difference unless I swapped Stability for Accuracy and even then, +4 makes no difference. And no one even knows what the Legendary skins do, but if most of these stat boosters are +1 to...I dunno, let's say +10 at the most for argument sake, to just 1 stat, it really isn't pay to win like people have assumed it is. I could honestly out perform any skin-wearing users no differently than I have to most XXV players in the past.

Now after all I have said about this. How do I feel? I'm still angry, but after having looked at the big picture, everyone has probably overreacted just a little bit, but at the same time, Overkill should not get away with the proverbial murder they've committed to the fans and the community. At this point, the message has been clear by the fans and until Crimefest is over, everyone is going to continue to riot against Overkill until they sit down and discuss the issue with the community and fix the damages.

So what should you people do about it? Just wait. Overkill will speak up, but they will finish releasing their content first, then fix the damages they've done. Overkill isn't stupid, to a degree. They've listened, and they see the wildfire, and they're most likely planning the solution to all of this, but I think we, the community, have gone far enough to spread the damage and Overkill will have learned their lesson by the end of all this.

EDIT:

Jim Sterling will be making a video very soon to explain Crimefest 2.

Edited by Toki Zensekai

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I wondered if this was what was going on.

What are your guy's thoughts?

I honestly don't know why everyone thought they would just have the content removed the next day. Overkill did put work into the content and they are not about to just drop all of it. They will likely try to work out some compromise on the system whether it be something like having a option to disble them or something else

 

Day 4

  • Added AI Hostage trading so you can get back into the game even if only an AI is left
  • Added Loud and Quiet filtering on Crime.net so you can find the lobbies that you want. 

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Well, turns out, that lone wolf was indeed a lone doggy. Maybe there is no such things as customised armor (shame, really, that might have been a feature worth looking for, if there would be some models instead of just plain skins).

And today's AI changes are really good. They should have been implemented at day 2 as some form of damage control, though.

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Day 4

  • New Features for lobbies in Crime.net to allow you to set your preferred to loud or stealth and also filter when searching.

Finally, something great in all of this. Even if i'd have prefered being able to change the skill tree in preplanning.

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Although this still hasn't quenched the flames though. Everyone is still yelling, saying that changes like these should've been added since the day this game came out. I kind of agree with them, unless this was some sort of coding that they only just recently discovered. But at least it's something.

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Things have calmed down a bit. Not quite as bad as it was on day one, if anything this is pretty accurate representation of the community right now : 

9zk9pUH.png

Yet I can't loose the feeling this "We'll deal with feedback once crimefest is over" is just an excuse to weasel themselves out of actually doing anything. Just a way to distract the people and avoid having to create an actual solution. Also sounds like they want to make some sort of compromise, which I believe we've made far too many with Overkill since the Hypetrain event. :suspicious:

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I really feel like people are taking this a bit too far. Look at the social media challenges for Road to Crimefest just a couple weeks ago; they didn't mean for it to be seen as shameless farming for likes or up votes or whatever social media uses these days. They had good intentions that turned out was very unpopular with the community, and so they removed them. I think they had the same line of thought for the safes, "People like CS:GO so they'll like this too." They didn't mean for it to be a shameless cash grab and chances are it'll be changed or adjusted after Crimefest when they actually have time.

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I honestly don't know why everyone thought they would just have the content removed the next day. Overkill did put work into the content and they are not about to just drop all of it. They will likely try to work out some compromise on the system whether it be something like having a option to disble them or something else

 

Day 4

  • Added AI Hostage trading so you can get back into the game even if only an AI is left
  • Added Loud and Quiet filtering on Crime.net so you can find the lobbies that you want. 

I really feel like people are taking this a bit too far. Look at the social media challenges for Road to Crimefest just a couple weeks ago; they didn't mean for it to be seen as shameless farming for likes or up votes or whatever social media uses these days. They had good intentions that turned out was very unpopular with the community, and so they removed them. I think they had the same line of thought for the safes, "People like CS:GO so they'll like this too." They didn't mean for it to be a shameless cash grab and chances are it'll be changed or adjusted after Crimefest when they actually have time.

If we stop saying the crateconomy was bad, they'll assume we approve, which we don't. There is nothing positive about it, and it satisfies no one except gambling addicts. We don't want it adjusted, we don't want it tweaked, we want it gone. The more and louder we keep saying that, the more likely it is to happen. This has made gaming news, so it's not something they can slink away from now. 

Also I host all my own jobs, I never go into custody except on DW, and never play with AI. This update offers me nothing. 

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unless this was some sort of coding that they only just recently discovered

I tried to implement this through scripting. Wasted all summer until I gave up. This was actually really hard to do with current way of AI scripting.

Thing is - all AI are sharing a lot of scripts. Like running, dodging, flinching e.t.c. To the point where you can give knockdowning scripts from Cloaker to your AI companion and he would be running around, beating cops to submission. So when I tried to make hostage trading for bots possible - I encountered a conflict with HR units, when AI tried to trade hostage he would instead free said hostage and trade was almost never completed. When I tried to remove HR script - cops started to trade hostages along with AI companions. There were not a lot of ways around that conflict and I impressed that OVK actually made that feature into the game.

Next big thing would be teaching bots to carry bags. Currently they can only carry them to the 'Captain Winters' place and this could not be done without tinkering of AI paths on the map.

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After what you said, it's really making me start to wonder if us, the majority of the fanbase that has been upset with Overkill, have truly overreacted? Because everyone is saying, "THIS SHOULD'VE BEEN ADDED SINCE DAY 1! [of PAYDAY 2], THIS UPDATE IS USELESS! F**K YOU OVERKILL!", but it seems like everyone is way too past the point of anger to take a step back and look at the bigger picture here.

Furthermore, I spoke with User yesterday, and he discovered, along with the Fiscal Report I posted, I made an error in reading it, and apparently given that the company is only 60 people large, they've only been making roughly ~1 Million in US Dollars since the last quarter. If Overkill is truly in the black like we're to assume they are, it's only by a small margin, and they've extended their resources to other small named companies and to other projects such as the Star VR, the Walking Dead, and a John Wick game associated with the Star VR.

While they did tell us Microtransactions would never be a thing, it sounds like Overkill was doing it not out of greed, but out of desperation. They seriously needed the money, and $5 DLCs was only going to stretch their revenue so far. While I probably shouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt, the statistics don't lie, and if what has been researched thus far actually true, Overkill is losing money, and this public backlash of the Black Market Update is only causing them to sink further.

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No free2play for day five,but there's still more crimefest to go around.

in other news,LMG's hit things now. :awesomecheer:

  • Added a new Light Machine Gun, KSP 58, available to all players 
  • Added the Bipod modification: Players can now modify their LMGs with a Bipod that increases Stability and Accuracy when Bipod is deployed 
  • Players can deploy the Bipod by using "4" by default or by holding down arrow on DPAD on a gamepad
Edited by Yoko

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I don't know much about this lone wolf guy, but he doesn't really seem to have good predictions on what's coming.

 

Edit: LMGs finally get some love.

 

After looking over that fiscal report I'm really not even mad at Overkill anymore. I'm not even disappointed. I just think they executed it very poorly and they're suffering more than they should be for it.

Edited by RadioactiveNuke

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I can honestly agree with most of this, except for letting the whole microtransaction stuff happen. That is literally my only issue with this entire fiasco. It's a very, very poor way to handle low income and it only leaves your players sore and very angry. Doesn't help that by adding them they already trampled on the promises they made before launch and thus demolished any remaining trust in them. A much better solution would have been another collaboration between studios, or even another DLC, but microtransactions will never be a worthwhile solution to any problem.

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Messing in server room?..

Is it?.. Could it be?..

If they add First World Bank to PD2 - this would be awesome.

My money's on that. If you look at yesterday's update page, the final gif showing off the FN MAG has a very.. strange hallway. I'm sure that hallway doesn't fit anywhere in PD2's current Heist roster and the only other place I've seen tiles and walls like that is, you guessed it : First World Bank. :good:

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