LittleLooney

Has the show strayed too far from Lauren Faust's vision?

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5 minutes ago, Celli said:

I don't think she was all that great a writer, and I think people give her to much credit as showrunner. Yeah she created it, but I think the show improved after she left. Season 1 was rough around the edges, and there was a lot of meh or poor episodes, like Boast Busters and Show Stoppers.

 

I agree with your opinion on Faust not being that great of a writer.

 

In fact, I almost gave up after the two-part pilot episode she wrote due to how rushed the second part felt. 

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13 minutes ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

 

I agree with your opinion on Faust not being that great of a writer.

 

In fact, I almost gave up after the two-part pilot episode she wrote due to how rushed the second part felt. 

I did give up. I watched then the Ticket Master and Applebuck season just to be sure in my opinion back then and then I stopped watching and concluded that MLP was nothing special.

I only returned years later, around 2015, after a friend that hated MLP was watching the show and talked about season 5 and I was curious. I watched first Discord's first episode and after that I decided to give the show a second chance and...well here I am. 

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20 hours ago, Cinder Vel said:

Um... you don't think that show has moved too far from original vision because it has moved away from original vision to a better direction?

That's not really what I meant, Cinder Vel.

 

When you ask someone if something has moved too far away from a vision, there are negative connotations there because you are implying that it has moved unnecessarily far from the original vision. MLP has undoubtedly moved far from the original, but my argument was that it hasn't moved too far because I think it is better in its current state.

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25 minutes ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

 

I agree with your opinion on Faust not being that great of a writer.

 

In fact, I almost gave up after the two-part pilot episode she wrote due to how rushed the second part felt. 

The series premiere is a mixed bag indeed. At first I remember actually enjoying it when I first watched it back in December 2012, but now when I watch it, the second part drags.

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56 minutes ago, Cinder Vel said:

I did give up. I watched then the Ticket Master and Applebuck season just to be sure in my opinion back then and then I stopped watching and concluded that MLP was nothing special.

I only returned years later, around 2015, after a friend that hated MLP was watching the show and talked about season 5 and I was curious. I watched first Discord's first episode and after that I decided to give the show a second chance and...well here I am. 

 

It's interesting that you say that you gave up for a while after watching

 

 "The Ticket Master" & "Applebuck Season"

 

because, those were the episodes that made me want to continue watching MLP:FiM.

 

As I've said in other topics, I credit  Amy Keating Rogers more with making me a fan of mlp  

 

then I do Lauren Faust because, she co-wrote The Ticket Master & Applebuck Season &

 

those were the episodes that got me hooked.

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1 hour ago, King Clark said:

That's not really what I meant, Cinder Vel.

I know but I just could not resist. I mean it is like waving a flag infront of a bull, how could I have resisted!

And I just don't see change inherently bad but that is necessary. Which is why I asked if it even matters that show has changed from what Faust originally envisioned? Show didn't become worse as changes were either for the better or just simply different.

 

 

1 hour ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

It's interesting that you say that you gave up for a while after watching

I was younger and I was foolish. Please forgive me :kdR94:

Only later did I realize how much more I enjoy simple down to earth stories that explore characters themselves.

I still don't care much about the the episode that started the show, charming as it was. Could be because I have seen it parodied so many times and saw it so many times retold in fanfiction with alteration. Even the comics had "what if" issue with Blueblood replacing Twilight (though I enjoyed that one for absurdity). 

 

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A wide range of interesting perspectives in this thread. I like it. 

 

I, on the other hand, was hyped from the Pilot, and I credit Faust and the editors who "abridged" the episode. Most say The Pilot Part Two was rushed, but I think that if it had been 30 minutes longer, I would have felt that it was going slow. The climax of the pilot helped me realize the purpose of all of the five previous plots, which I would have otherwise thought were mediocre plot fillers. Such creativity on Faust's part got me really excited for the Mane Six as a whole. As for Applebuck Season, I think I would have been okay with either Faust's or AKR's version. 

 

Faust will always have a special place in my heart for planting seeds that the rest have brought to great fruition. I'm no Faustinian, however. I give much credit to Charlotte Fullerton, MA Larson, and Dave Polsky for keeping me hyped for MLP with Suited For Succes, Sonic Rainboom, and Over A Barrel, respectively. As for MLP after Faust left, I think that the series has gone neither better nor worse. It has just changed. Any change is good, if done well, and I wouldn't be here right now if I didn't think that's the case for this series.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Celli said:

The series premiere is a mixed bag indeed. At first I remember actually enjoying it when I first watched it back in December 2012, but now when I watch it, the second part drags.

My feelings towards it are the exact opposite. I feel the first part drags on more than the second part. It spent so much time introducing the characters that it took until basically the last minute for the plot to finally kick in. Don't get me wrong, I still like the pilot, but it suffers from a few pacing issues.

47 minutes ago, ChB said:

As for Applebuck Season, I think I would have been okay with either Faust's or AKR's version.

 

 

Lauren was originally going to write Applebuck Season? Where'd you learn that from? :?

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6 minutes ago, LittleLooney said:

My feelings towards it are the exact opposite. I feel the first part drags on more than the second part. It spent so much time introducing the characters that it took until basically the last minute for the plot to finally kick in. Don't get me wrong, I still like the pilot, but it suffers from a few pacing issues.

Well of course, it's the first part, it makes sense to introduce the characters, as it was the first time seeing them.

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6 minutes ago, LittleLooney said:

My feelings towards it are the exact opposite. I feel the first part drags on more than the second part. It spent so much time introducing the characters that it took until basically the last minute for the plot to finally kick in. Don't get me wrong, I still like the pilot, but it suffers from a few pacing issues.

Keep in mind that they are the main characters, so I don't think taking a long time to introduce them and their bond is such a bad thing. It is necessary for the pilot to set up these characters as good characters because we are going to be spending the whole series with them and they are hopefully the reason that you are coming back for more.

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17 hours ago, Metemponychosis said:

Honestly, I think that this is a legitimate position for someone to be in. As someone that absolutely loves the cartoon, I certainly can name things about it that I don't like. In a way or another, it's still entertaining if one watches it only to hate on it. (I had a group of friends that watched Saint Seiya precisely because of that). Another thing is that, in my experience, people that don't like something just leave it. When people stay behind to complain about it, they may have a hope that they'll like it again.

That's why I'd say that in one sense, hating some work of fiction isn't so different from loving it. Both have people talking and thinking about that work of fiction, and there's also the reason you provide of hoping to like something.

15 hours ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

I'm just glad the ponies don't have a "big epic adventure" every episode because,

 

if they were anything like the two part season premier's/finale's we have now the show would become boring to me pretty quickly

 

to be completely honest.

Interestingly, one of the reasons I was drawn to the show was because of the show possibly doing "big epic adventure" stories with "girly" stuff and still probably looking cool for it. And I didn't need the show to have those stories that often as mixing up adventures with everyday life stuff provides a variety of stories for the viewers. However, the 2-part episodes tend to be awful.

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6 hours ago, Cinder Vel said:

I did give up. I watched then the Ticket Master and Applebuck season just to be sure in my opinion back then and then I stopped watching and concluded that MLP was nothing special.

I only returned years later, around 2015, after a friend that hated MLP was watching the show and talked about season 5 and I was curious. I watched first Discord's first episode and after that I decided to give the show a second chance and...well here I am. 

I actually liked the premiere in spite of the kicking it gets. It was able to set up the main characters, and the point of the premiere was to give the Mane 6 a reason to stick together after going through an adventure. The stuff Nightmare Moon threw at them was hardly impressive, but the characters were still shown to care about and be willing to help each other. I just figured that this rough start could be a learning experience. Alas, it was not meant to be.

On the flip side, I hated "The Return of Harmony", and I never knew it was well-loved until some amount of time after I saw it. I'm surprised that I'm mentioning other people's opinions when I prefer not to since I would rather mention my own thoughts, but I guess I had to mention the contrast. I did stick around after "The Return of Harmony" since I figured the show could only get better after such a disaster. Then again, I said the same thing for "The Cutie Re-Mark", but my interest in the show continued to dwindle.

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4 minutes ago, Number? said:

I actually liked the premiere

By no means it is bad. Well except that it was humble beginning and things were yet to settle. Like AJ having higher pitched voice. But well it was rather standard thing from my perspective about group of friends meeting and through friendship defeating a villain.

And huh first time I hear someone hating The Return of Harmony. Not that it doesn't deserve criticism but I figured it had some sort of sacred cow status.

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6 minutes ago, Cinder Vel said:

By no means it is bad. Well except that it was humble beginning and things were yet to settle. Like AJ having higher pitched voice. But well it was rather standard thing from my perspective about group of friends meeting and through friendship defeating a villain.

And huh first time I hear someone hating The Return of Harmony. Not that it doesn't deserve criticism but I figured it had some sort of sacred cow status.

You can read more of my thoughts about "The Return of Harmony" here. I'm too lazy to repeat myself right now.

There's a first time for everything, but you already know that. And no work of fiction is too sacred (at least to me) since they're not needed for survival, and thus they're just disposable pieces of entertainment that I'm surprised gets any kind of discussion. Though I do know why exactly they get discussion, but a person needs something to do at the same time, right?

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4 hours ago, LittleLooney said:

Lauren was originally going to write Applebuck Season? Where'd you learn that from? :?

I heard rumors that Faust originally intended AJ to get apples from the trees by head-butting them, rather than kicking them, and that AJ needed help because too much of that can risk a concussion, not because she was tired.

 

Take it with a grain of salt. 

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I think that it should be mentioned (sorry if someone already did it... I did read everything, but got distracted a few times...) that what we got in the first episode was supposed to be a season-wide plot. Meaning, instead of that rushed mess, we should've gotten a season of episodes where the girls would find their elements in whole episodes (I suppose kinda like what happened with the Rainbow Power) with a climax at the end.

Also, that Princess Celestia was supposed to be Queen Celestia.

That only she and Luna were supposed to be alicorns (who weren't even called alicorns).

That the cartoon would've been much more adventure oriented.

Honestly, that stuff about Applejack, her head and the apple trees aren't that important to me, but these are. And these put "Lauren's vision" in a similar position to:

The cartoon --------------------- Mars-----------------> Her vision

By the way, Mr Larson said in one of those conventions that in Magical Mystery Cure, his original idea was that Twilight got the answer by dumb luck, therefore creating magic. George Lucas wanted all stormtroopers to have lightsabers, they were going to board Leia's ship walking in space with a glorified plank, Darth Vader was nothing more than Takin's subordinate, a stormtrooper with black armor. These things change all the time.

With that said, I don't care. And I don't think that people should care either. If that is a problem, that is what fanfiction is for. Go write some. Would I've liked Queen Celestia? Sure. Only two alicorns? Yes. Season-wide adventure? Yes! I doubt that Ms. Faust would've turned the conflict between Celestia and Luna/NMM into a rushed two-minute scene. But she wasn't there to make it anything. So what is the point of "Lauren Faust's vision"?

I've seen people posting images showing her like the mother of the cartoon. Well, if she's the mother, she left her kid behind.

There. I'm done ranting.

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3 hours ago, Number? said:

On the flip side, I hated "The Return of Harmony", and I never knew it was well-loved until some amount of time after I saw it.

If it wasn't for The Return of Harmony, I never would have became a fan in the first place. :o

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10 hours ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

 

It's interesting that you say that you gave up for a while after watching

 

 "The Ticket Master" & "Applebuck Season"

 

because, those were the episodes that made me want to continue watching MLP:FiM.

 

As I've said in other topics, I credit  Amy Keating Rogers more with making me a fan of mlp  

 

then I do Lauren Faust because, she co-wrote The Ticket Master & Applebuck Season &

 

those were the episodes that got me hooked.

Like @Number?, I got into MLP partly because of the adventure aspect. Before MLP, I was not a big fan of "slice of life" series in general, with the exception of "Hey Arnold!"  Charlotte Fullterton and Cindy Morrow changed my mind. 

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1 hour ago, Metemponychosis said:

I think that it should be mentioned (sorry if someone already did it... I did read everything, but got distracted a few times...) that what we got in the first episode was supposed to be a season-wide plot. Meaning, instead of that rushed mess, we should've gotten a season of episodes where the girls would find their elements in whole episodes (I suppose kinda like what happened with the Rainbow Power) with a climax at the end.

Also, that Princess Celestia was supposed to be Queen Celestia.

That only she and Luna were supposed to be alicorns (who weren't even called alicorns).

That the cartoon would've been much more adventure oriented.

...

Would I've liked Queen Celestia? Sure. Only two alicorns? Yes. Season-wide adventure? Yes! I doubt that Ms. Faust would've turned the conflict between Celestia and Luna/NMM into a rushed two-minute scene. But she wasn't there to make it anything. 

I think the reason the plot was compressed is that it would have been very hard to get the show published without making the Pilot a complete story-line.

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7 minutes ago, ChB said:

I think the reason the plot was compressed is that it would have been very hard to get the show published without making the Pilot a complete story-line.

I'm not convinced. Specially because the pilot could've been a complete story within a larger story.

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22 minutes ago, Metemponychosis said:

I'm not convinced. Specially because the pilot could've been a complete story within a larger story.

Fair enough. Then perhaps the publishers forced Faust to compress it, for some reason.

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32 minutes ago, ChB said:

Fair enough. Then perhaps the publishers forced Faust to compress it, for some reason.

Yes. Though we'll probably never know the reason. I can guess.. Someone thought that "little girls" can't follow a long story... Or some weird ivory tower nonsense like that.

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14 hours ago, Celli said:

I don't think she was all that great a writer, and I think people give her to much credit as showrunner. Yeah she created it, but I think the show improved after she left. Season 1 was rough around the edges, and there was a lot of meh or poor episodes, like Boast Busters and Show Stoppers.

 

I think the show improved after she left as well, but no necessarily as a result of her leaving. Yeah, she's not the best storyteller in the world and her episodes aren't perfect (the ones she wrote I mean), but I think that she deserves the credit that she gets because she came up with all the characters, ideas and almost everything else that the show started with. If anything, the thing she had the least hand in was the background design, but almost everything else was set up and thought up by her. And while Season 1 wasn't the best season of the series, there's hardly a show that I can think of where the first season is the best that the show has to offer so I think it's kind of unfair to compare it to the rest of the series, regardless if it concerns Lauren or not.

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18 hours ago, LittleLooney said:

If it wasn't for The Return of Harmony, I never would have became a fan in the first place. :o

We all start somewhere, and we have different tastes as well. So I don't see anything wrong.

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