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Season 7, Episodes 24 & 25: Shadow Play

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Title: Shadow Play

 

Synopsis: With Starswirl and the other Pillars of Old Equestria back from limbo (where they’ve been trapped for a thousand years), Twilight and her friends must work together to defeat the Pony of Shadows.

 

Airs: Today at 11:30 A.M. on Discovery Family

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Really cool stuff. Maybe not as intense as the Starlight and Tirek wars, but engaging regardless. The theme of finding out your hero is actually a jerk made a really cool sub plot. Starlight was adorable and sympathetic; she must be the most huggable pony other than Fluttershy. Somebody get this pony a blanket, a hot chocolate and a kite, stat! :awesomedash:

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What I liked:

 

The Mane Cast's various MacGuffin-related subquests, the Pillars (including Stygian) in general, the Tree Of Harmony's origin finally being revealed, and the cameo by The Dazzlings.

 

What I didn't like:

 

Star Swirl's holier-than-thou attitude (which thankfully got better by the end), and The Pony Of Shadows being underwhelming as well as a complete ripoff of Nightmare Moon.

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I love Star Swirl's voice. If Gandalf took a ponification potion, he'd turn into Star Swirl 9/10 times.

I've put aside the obligatory complaining about Celestia and Luna in the episode because of the fact that the writers just aren't willing to deal with their existence in these episodes is a given and people just don't care. At the same time, I'm almost happy that Celestia and Luna were dead on the water, because if they had been of use in this episode, the way I liked it would've looked biased.

It's good that what came after the introduction is just so great. Why wasn't this the movie, by the way? They managed to even make Spike have his moment in the spotlight, and in the right way. This finale made such a great use of all of the Mane Six and friends in the span of 20 minutes. Even Starlight Glimmer was making sense and pulling back against Twilight's rush. It's like she's learned something, and again, she was the perfect character (other than Luna) to do her part. With additional time, they could've made this whole thing a lot less rushed. These episodes were actually funny, they explained things, they created lore. They told a story!

And Stygian. This is edgy and dark done right, though I believe he really should've been given a few scenes to actually create trouble. It was like Nightmare Moon, that didn't even have time to harm anyone other than Celestia. Still, I think that the Pony of Shadows succeeded in his role. I don't know if it's the same story as the comic, but I don't care. Speaking of that, man, what a treat, after reading, for example, the Siren's volume of the Fiendship is Magic series. Even if it was rushed, those seconds in this finale were better than that.

Will we get more of those ponies next season? More of Star Swirl? I haven't been this excited for the cartoon since seeing the pilot episode, that introduced me to the cartoon.

 

Now, why is this better than other season finales...

I don't know how much of what I said and what I say next is intentional, but it's episodes like this finale make me wish I could get my opinions to the people that make this cartoon, because THIS deserves praise! This shows that they can do these kinds of stories, in spite of what I say every single time.

The pony of shadows is good because it's not some weird monster out of the blue that, for some reason, has a weird fixation on the ponies, like Discord, the Changelings or Tirek, that ignore everything outside of Equestria because the story is pulled into the familiar scenarios. Or Nightmare Moon, whose plan to hide the sun should've brought attention from all lands beyond Equestria. Especially when the only one that could've done anything about it, at the time, was gone. It's stories like those that make me think that the people writing the cartoon don't understand the kind of character Celestia and Luna should be and the impact they actually have in the world, way beyond Equestria (before they decided that raising the sun is not that big a deal, anyway, and this power can be freely taken and given). That they don't understand how old beings like them would behave. Even in their way of being weird or uncomfortable, they should be different. Like there is a reason they're having trouble, rather than they're just clueless. Really, the more they did with those, the dumber it all got.

This Star Swirl, for example, was different. He felt powerful, even when his power alone wasn't enough. He took command, he had a majesty about him that made him the guy that points in the right direction. Compare that to Twilight in Princess Twilight Sparkle. Pathetic. Even when it was obvious he was wrong to the audience, he felt wise, like he knew what he was doing and that made the scene where he admitted his mistake that much stronger. The producers respected Star Swirl. They respected all those characters from the legends and put them in a story that fit with them. It makes them seem petty, but I have to wonder if that is because those characters aren't the original that came with the beginning of the cartoon.

Another thing this episode did right is that the villain wasn't defeated because of his ego or his stupidity. The heroes had to work for their victory. Rushed as it was, the ponies had to go find those artifacts, and then they had to prepare to fight the Pony of Shadows. This, with more time to spare in details, the ones that would give even more life to the story...

And most important, none of that required a higher age rating. If next season is going to get a similar story, then more of this, please. Even if it's not the meat of the cartoon, it just makes it better.

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I'm not sure what I feel about this finale.

 

I felt there was no immediate danger presented throughout the finale. The Pony of Shadows was a talking head, just 

talking about how he'll cast the land in shadows instead of really doing anything. They probably could've built up the true menace of the Pony of Shadows by him casting parts of Equestria - or all of it - in darkness. 

 

Although...

 

I enjoyed The Dazzlings cameo. Also, the portal used to banish The Dazzlings looked to be the same as the one where the Pony of Shadows entity was banished into towards the end of the finale. Maybe the Pony of Shadows entity is now roaming around the human world and might play the villain in the next Equestria Girls movie/series?

 

A minor issue, I suppose, though I have been dealing with a bug for the last couple of days, so that might've hindered my perception of this finale. Might need to watch it again when I'm more aware.

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seeing the elements again was nice, but they're kinda old school, aren't they?

I'd really like starswirl to meet sombra (and hope) on his travels, so we learn how these two are doing

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I did watch this. It's not that I didn't.

I could give my thoughts... but...

I'm not going to.

Because I have A LOT of things to think about. Particularly when it comes to my status with this show and my fandom on this in general.

Due to this... I won't be giving my thoughts on this episode until I've made said decision.

Though if it takes too long... I may give my thoughts anyway and then just continue deciding my status on this show and fandom.

So there you go. Look forward to that. Or don't. Because I'm seriously beginning to not give a fuck anymore.

 

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1 hour ago, LostSanity said:

I did watch this. It's not that I didn't.

I could give my thoughts... but...

I'm not going to.

Because I have A LOT of things to think about. Particularly when it comes to my status with this show and my fandom on this in general.

Due to this... I won't be giving my thoughts on this episode until I've made said decision.

Though if it takes too long... I may give my thoughts anyway and then just continue deciding my status on this show and fandom.

So there you go. Look forward to that. Or don't. Because I'm seriously beginning to not give a fuck anymore.

 

Dude, by this point, whatever points you want to make have already been made ever since Season 6 came and went, not to mention that Thrond, RK and Nuke did a better job explaining why Starlight's redemption has been half-baked at best and a dumpster fire at worst.

EDIT: Still, if you want/need to explain your thoughts and opinions, I'm not going to stop you.


EDIT 2: As for the episode itself, I liked it, but I kind of wish there were some episodes dedicated to The Pillars (outside the introductory episodes) to help build up the story.

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20 minutes ago, WaterPulse said:

Dude, by this point, whatever points you want to make have already been made ever since Season 6 came and went, not to mention that Thrond, RK and Nuke did a better job explaining why Starlight's redemption has been half-baked at best and a dumpster fire at worst.

I'll be completely honest with you.

At this point...

I feel like there's to much stuff being shoved down my throat.

Half-thought out so-called 'redemption's' that are actually ridiculously horrible. Then they keep shoving said so-called 'redeemed' characters in my face and expecting to me to like them as if they are redeemed when they actually aren't.

Trixie being the worst example with her 'holier-than-thou' attitude and constantly proving that she actually hasn't learned anything and isn't trying to 'change for the better' or whatever BS she wants to claim.

You know what I think my main problem is?

That these characters in question (Starlight, Trixie, and Discord) aren't actually struggling with what they've done. I mean... if these characters were actually consistently struggling and/or being haunted with what they've done... then maybe, just maybe I'd be more willing to accept it.

But they aren't, haven't been, and seemingly never will be. Because this show is acting as if everything they've done never happened. Which may be the worst and most horrendous part of all this.

I think that's my main issue.

That and Starlight is on a high horse and needs to be taken down several pegs. She's OP and honestly, somewhat of a Mary-Stu if you ask me. I don't care how much the shows claims she studied magic. Twilight studied longer and, therefore, should be more powerful and had freaking Celestia as a teacher and we're just supposed to believe that Starlight self-taught her OP-ness? Yeah I don't think so. Plus you don't form a de-facto dictatorship and get away with it. You just don't.

Don't believe me? Then try researching dictatorships in history. Did they get away with it and were forgiven as if nothing happened? The answer to that should be blatantly obvious and common sense.

This seems to be my main issue.

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33 minutes ago, LostSanity said:

I'll be completely honest with you.

At this point...

I feel like there's to much stuff being shoved down my throat.

Half-thought out so-called 'redemption's' that are actually ridiculously horrible. Then they keep shoving said so-called 'redeemed' characters in my face and expecting to me to like them as if they are redeemed when they actually aren't.

Trixie being the worst example with her 'holier-than-thou' attitude and constantly proving that she actually hasn't learned anything and isn't trying to 'change for the better' or whatever BS she wants to claim.

You know what I think my main problem is?

That these characters in question (Starlight, Trixie, and Discord) aren't actually struggling with what they've done. I mean... if these characters were actually consistently struggling and/or being haunted with what they've done... then maybe, just maybe I'd be more willing to accept it.

...

 

So, basically they're just as poorly handled as Sasuke Uchiha from Naruto and Kikyo from Inuyasha.

As for Trixie being the worst of your unholy trio? Nah, Starlight still has her beat. At least Trixie's arrogance is somewhat balanced out with her being a butt monkey, culminating with her getting a much deserved bash over the head with a nut cart in "All Bottled Up". And Discord is a chaos god, not to mention that the guy ended up getting served a slice of humble pie in "Dungeons And Discords". In terms of karma biting her in the flank, Starlight has more or less gotten jack shit, even by my lowered standards compared to yours, which is made worse considering that the show is basically building her up as Twilight's successor. No nut carts over the head, no humble pies, nothing. Not to mention that the entirety of Season 6 was dedicated to flushing any potentially important character development for her down the toilet.

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@WaterPulse

Another thing.

I'll admit there's one thing that is consistently being proven when it comes to Starlight.

Which is the fact that she has absolutely no common sense whatsoever. Another thing she had done, which no one has ever been forgiven for and acted as if it never happened, is using mind control. She did that to her so-called 'friends' and got off scot-free as if it didn't happen.

Has anyone else that has used mind control gotten away with it and treated as if it never happened? Again... the answer is blatantly obvious and common sense.

As I've been thinking about this... some of the fault most likely lies with the writers/show runners/whatever you want to call them. They seem to be getting talentless hacks who have consistently proven that either a) they're hypocrites (Fame and Misfortune) who attack their own fandom for complaining about complaining yet they continue to shove things down our throats and expect us to just like and accept them b) they didn't actually take the extra mile and do actual research on the show. As in, oh I don't know, watching all the other episodes before they actually started writing them themselves? I mean, even I go the extra mile when I write fanfiction on media and I don't even consider myself a writer. Something else that should have been flat out common sense. I even did this back when I was true fan of this show/series and wrote an insane crossover fanfiction with this and a bunch of other media (anime, video games, other cartoons, etc.) When I wasn't sure about something, I took the time to do research and look it up to make sure I knew what I was doing and what I was talking about.

Yet these so-called 'writers/show runners/whatever' didn't seem to do that at all and just started writing as if they knew what they were doing when they continue to prove that they don't and are flat out hypocrites. They should have watched all the previous episodes so they had a basic idea of what the show was doing, where it was going, and what to do when they started writing. Yet they didn't, clearly haven't, and seemingly never will. It's too little to late at this point to do that. But still.

In other words, some of the blame for the direction of this show and why it's beginning to shove things down our throats may actually lie with the current talentless hack writers/show runners/whatever.

But hey, that's just IMO.

:newspaper:

 

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18 hours ago, LostSanity said:

@WaterPulse

Another thing.

I'll admit there's one thing that is consistently being proven when it comes to Starlight.

Which is the fact that she has absolutely no common sense whatsoever. Another thing she had done, which no one has ever been forgiven for and acted as if it never happened, is using mind control. She did that to her so-called 'friends' and got off scot-free as if it didn't happen.

Has anyone else that has used mind control gotten away with it and treated as if it never happened? Again... the answer is blatantly obvious and common sense.

As I've been thinking about this... some of the fault most likely lies with the writers/show runners/whatever you want to call them. They seem to be getting talentless hacks who have consistently proven that either a) they're hypocrites (Fame and Misfortune) who attack their own fandom for complaining about complaining yet they continue to shove things down our throats and expect us to just like and accept them b) they didn't actually take the extra mile and do actual research on the show. As in, oh I don't know, watching all the other episodes before they actually started writing them themselves? I mean, even I go the extra mile when I write fanfiction on media and I don't even consider myself a writer. Something else that should have been flat out common sense. I even did this back when I was true fan of this show/series and wrote an insane crossover fanfiction with this and a bunch of other media (anime, video games, other cartoons, etc.) When I wasn't sure about something, I took the time to do research and look it up to make sure I knew what I was doing and what I was talking about.

Yet these so-called 'writers/show runners/whatever' didn't seem to do that at all and just started writing as if they knew what they were doing when they continue to prove that they don't and are flat out hypocrites. They should have watched all the previous episodes so they had a basic idea of what the show was doing, where it was going, and what to do when they started writing. Yet they didn't, clearly haven't, and seemingly never will. It's too little to late at this point to do that. But still.

In other words, some of the blame for the direction of this show and why it's beginning to shove things down our throats may actually lie with the current talentless hack writers/show runners/whatever.

But hey, that's just IMO.

:newspaper:

 

1. I think the problem with having writing prospects watching all the episodes is that the longer it goes on, the more daunting a task it is for someone to absorb all that information in such a short time. Worst case scenario, you get something with an insanely large backlog like, say, Doctor Who. Still, at the very least, if an episode is gonna involve certain characters, they should go with the quintessential episodes with those characters just to give prospects a taste. That, and weed out anyone who's a hop, skip and jump away from becoming the next Ken Penders.

2. Even if there was a screening for prospects, there's no guarantee it's going to go well. This is pure conjecture on my part, but part of the blame probably has to go to Hasbro.  They probably know there's an audience getting invested in the mythos of the show, and yet, after seven seasons, a movie, a comic series, storybooks and a semi-spinoff series in the form of Equestria Girls, they've yet to stop counting their money for five seconds and think "You know, we've got a good thing going, maybe we should try upping our game". They're more than willing to make mandates on whether or not Vinyl Scratch speaks or whether or not Trixie went to the School For Gifted Unicorns, and yet they can't be bothered to check and see if the development of what is arguably the most important secondary character in the show (and who was arguably the most dangerous foe Twilight faced up to that point) has some frickin' consistency and pacing.

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20 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

1. I think the problem with having writing prospects watching all the episodes is that the longer it goes on, the more daunting a task it is for someone to absorb all that information in such a short time. Worst case scenario, you get something with an insanely large backlog like, say, Doctor Who. Still, at the very least, if an episode is gonna involve certain characters, they should go with the quintessential episodes with those characters just to give prospects a taste. That, and weed out anyone who's a hop, skip and jump away from becoming the next Ken Penders.

That's really no excuse though. I don't care how long a series is or how many episodes it has. If your going to write for something then do your due diligence and research the show and what has been done with it on previous episodes/seasons.

If they are going to be write for a show that gained popularity like this then they can at the very least do that to ensure that the quality stays the same instead of tanking like it clearly has. If it really is that much of a problem then sure just watch episodes in question involving whatever characters they are writing for. Honestly though... research should have been their first thought. 'Hey I should watch this to see what it's done so I can do similar content, quality, and consistency' instead of 'derp I do what I want and I'm going to shove things down peoples throats and be a hypocrite and attack the fandom that created this shows popularity'

20 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

2. Even if there was a screening for prospects, there's no guarantee it's going to go well. This is pure conjecture on my part, but part of the blame probably has to go to Hasbro.  They probably know there's an audience getting invested in the mythos of the show, and yet, after seven seasons, a movie, a comic series, storybooks and a semi-spinoff series in the form of Equestria Girls, they've yet to stop counting their money for five seconds and think "You know, we've got a good thing going, maybe we should try upping our game". They're more than willing to make mandates on whether or not Vinyl Scratch speaks or whether or not Trixie went to the School For Gifted Unicorns, and yet they can't be bothered to check and see if the development of what is arguably the most important secondary character in the show (and who was arguably the most dangerous foe Twilight faced up to that point) has some frickin' consistency and pacing.

I actually agree with you here. Hasbro has clearly been blinded by fattening their wallets instead of making sure that the quality, product, consistency, and content of a show that unexpectedly gained popularity maintains itself. They could care less about the show. All they care about is wanting to be like Scrooge McDuck and being able to swim in their money.

There's a reason Greed is one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

 

P.S.: Since no one else seems to be posting here to refute this... I guess that means we're right. Thanks for admitting it everyone!! :awesomecheer:

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14 minutes ago, LostSanity said:

That's really no excuse though. I don't care how long a series is or how many episodes it has. If your going to write for something then do your due diligence and research the show and what has been done with it on previous episodes/seasons.

If they are going to be write for a show that gained popularity like this then they can at the very least do that to ensure that the quality stays the same instead of tanking like it clearly has. If it really is that much of a problem then sure just watch episodes in question involving whatever characters they are writing for. Honestly though... research should have been their first thought. 'Hey I should watch this to see what it's done so I can do similar content, quality, and consistency' instead of 'derp I do what I want and I'm going to shove things down peoples throats and be a hypocrite and attack the fandom that created this shows popularity'

...

I didn't say they shouldn't do it, it's just that the process is daunting. Still, I guess that particular bullet has to be bitten sooner or later.

 

15 minutes ago, LostSanity said:

...

P.S.: Since no one else seems to be posting here to refute this... I guess that means we're right. Thanks for admitting it everyone!! :awesomecheer:

I think it has less to do with the board having no counter argument and more that they all went to Discord. A shame, I'm actually starting to miss the drama.

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I really liked this finale and I have to say that it's probably one of my favorite finales to date. It's great that we've had so much build up to this in both the show and the comics leading up to this and I really hope they continue doing this in the future. I feel it really paid off. I think what I like most about it is what it opens up for the next season to come with the Legends of Equestria coming back after so long and having to adapt to a new world. Especially with Starswirl, a pony who has been brought up since Season 2 as one of the best magic users in Equestrian history. It's normal for me to be excited for the next season of pony, but this finale really has me excited. Especially with the recent Season 8 news that we've gotten over the last couple of months about 

 

the return of Chrysalis in the season opener and the return of Tirek in the Season 8 finale

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On 10/31/2017 at 3:20 PM, PixelGrip94 said:

I really liked this finale and I have to say that it's probably one of my favorite finales to date. It's great that we've had so much build up to this in both the show and the comics leading up to this and I really hope they continue doing this in the future. I feel it really paid off. I think what I like most about it is what it opens up for the next season to come with the Legends of Equestria coming back after so long and having to adapt to a new world. Especially with Starswirl, a pony who has been brought up since Season 2 as one of the best magic users in Equestrian history. It's normal for me to be excited for the next season of pony, but this finale really has me excited. Especially with the recent Season 8 news that we've gotten over the last couple of months about 

  Reveal hidden contents

the return of Chrysalis in the season opener and the return of Tirek in the Season 8 finale

 

So I watched the finale again last night just to see if a 2nd viewing would change my mind a bit. While I still consider this one of the best finales of the series, I still think that Season 4 has a better finale based solely on the build up to the finale being done in the series itself rather than this finale where most of the build up was done in the comics. Yeah, the show talked about the Legends of Equestria prior to the finale, but it didn't focus a single episode on all six of them instead having the comics focus an entire issue on each of them.

 

Season 4, on the other hand, had an entire episode focus on each of the Mane 6's keys that would eventually be used in the finale and didn't rely on fans reading the comics to get the full extent of each key's importance to the character who received them.

 

But all that said, I still love this finale and found it to be an amazing way to end Season 7, putting this finale as the second best of the series just barely under Twilight's Kingdom, and before A Canterlot Wedding. At least that's how I'd rate it if I was trying to be objective. Personally, I still prefer A Canterlot Wedding over any other season finale. While I acknowledge that it has problems, I still love the crap out of it and nothing will beat the utter fangasm that I had watching that episode for the first time.

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i think it was a good finale. I liked Twilight and Starlight in it and felt pity for Stygian. I liked the mythology gag that Pinkie's counterpart was a pegasus, and Fluttershy's counterpart an earth pony. I loved seeing Rainbow Dash and Spike outsmart and outrace Garble. (I hate that dragon jerk, Garble's the worst.)

 

 

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I haven't been posting in these threads, but you know what, I kinda feel like adding my 2 cents here, even though I already have a review up in my thread. I'm just not entirely understanding what people like about this one. It has its funny moments and an okay message, but it's also overly reliant on Starlight being the voice of reason without actually having much interesting development, the Pillars are kinda just underdeveloped archetypes, and the lore is mostly cliches, so I had a hard time being invested in any of this story. If people just like the lore, then more power to them, but what "character moments" are they praising? I don't feel like the episode really digs into the nuances of anyone on display, and I find most of the actual plot stuff kinda dull because I barely know the Pillars and don't especially care about Starlight. A lot of it just feels somehow forced to me, like everything is technically justified but it's not built up organically. I know you're all super impressed that this doesn't have the problems seen in other episodes, but honestly, I feel like most of those other two-parters simply had more life in them. 

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@Thrond

I've accepted some time ago that season openers and season finales are simply different from the rest of the episodes. That helps a lot in liking this episode and accepting it's flaws in the process...

To me, the fact that Starlight is being the voice of reason is a long time coming because the series expects us to see that she's a good pony now and her development to this point comes from other episodes and simply the fact that, despite thinking that the producers have screwed up several times, we're supposed to see her as the one that did bad things but is now better and that puts her in a position to understand the situation different than the other ponies.

Yes, it lacks 'character moments' and development to individual new characters, but that is because the cartoon tried doing that with their individual episodes and expects us to remember what each 'older' character has already accomplished. This episode feels like part of a series instead of a stand alone, self-contained adventure (like most season finales that use previous episodes more like a book would use a prologue). Also, this is why I said that this should've been the movie. This would've given it the time it needed to develop these 'character moments' and give the villain some more time, in the past and present, to create problems that would make the stakes higher, and make it more of a threat. This would've helped a lot in making the whole plot more organic within the episode, even considering previous ones and what each character brings to it, in the form of it's backstory and previous episodes. Mostly because the Mane Six are doing what they're supposed to be doing in this kind of story: save the world though what means the marketing department wants it.

And cliches are fine, as long as they're used the right way. And this is exactly what these new ponies are: the kind of characters this story needed. The only reason you don't feel the same about the Mane Six is because they've had more episodes to explore their motivations, niches and limitations within their world. Again, we just needed more of these characters, but that is hardly a flaw within the episode itself, rather with the season that wastes whole episodes on filler (which turn out to be nice SOL episodes) rather than exploring the characters it needs for the climax.

MLP is not a complex or very intelligent cartoon in general, it can't hold a story, season-wide, to finish up with the great climax this episode was supposed to be. So, no, it's not excellent, but I never expect season finales to be; but this one, at least, manages to rise above a little from the usual season finale and does things a little better. That is enough for me to like it.

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@Metemponychosis More power to you, but as with many posts on this episode, that reads like a lot of bad stuff this episode avoided and fairly little that it did well. A lot of my problem is that this episode relies heavily on continuity in a show which is really quite poor at it - that's the same reason why I dislike "Magical Mystery Cure" and "Amending Fences" - and as a result, I don't know the new characters well enough to care about them, and Starlight's inconsistency makes her behaviour feel forced. And yes, I like the mane six more because their nuances have been explored in much greater detail, but I barely know the new ones, so why should I care about them? In general, I'd rather a finale either take itself less seriously or focus mainly on a pre-existing character in some way. Maybe I'm just not understanding the problem with the other two-partners so much, which I largely consider either funnier, more creative, or more dramatically compelling. 

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Plus, when I'm so accustomed to seeing Twilight & co. solving the problem, it's a little irritating to have the show's least consistent character come in and largely tell them what to do.

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