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And honestly, this whole "writers shoving down our throat" argument is getting old. People can say that for just about anything they dislike and claim it is the writers shoving it down their throat, every time it is aired. Some people dislike Rainbow Dash or Fluttershy, some dislike certain ships, some dislike Thorax, the Cutie Mark Crusaders, etc. You don't have to like them, but you should not expect the writers to conform to your point of view, just because you don't like them. 

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18 hours ago, ChB said:

And honestly, this whole "writers shoving down our throat" argument is getting old. People can say that for just about anything they dislike and claim it is the writers shoving it down their throat, every time it is aired.

Hear, hear! It's a wildly subjective turn of phrase.

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On 11/24/2017 at 8:02 PM, ChB said:

I know, I read it.

 

If by "struggle," you mean that they have learned their lessons and are making an effort to overcome it, then yes, Starlight has been struggling. She learned her lesson at the end of "Every Little Thing She Does," and I don't recall her intentionally mind-controlling a pony without remorse, since then. 

 

The rest of your counter-points are unconvincing to me. For one, just because it is common sense for someone to calm down from a loss and move on, doesn't mean that all people will do it. Some people hold grudges for a long time, and it eventually leads them to do ugly things. Starlight is no exception. While I agree that Starlight's back-story is not the best, I don't think it was unrealistic. 

No she hasn't.

Try proving it instead of just claiming it.

How is OP Mary Sue struggling with what she did? Because I fail to see it in any way whatsoever.

Also... you don't forgive someone for mind control. You just don't.

I could care less if they are convincing to you or not. How about explaining why instead of just taking the easy way out?

People that hold grudges for long periods of time are the worst kinds of people actually so your just kind of proving my point about Starlight.

Of course it's unrealistic and I already explained why. So I won't be doing it again. Try responding to what I actually said.

On 11/24/2017 at 8:17 PM, ChB said:

And honestly, this whole "writers shoving down our throat" argument is getting old. People can say that for just about anything they dislike and claim it is the writers shoving it down their throat, every time it is aired. Some people dislike Rainbow Dash or Fluttershy, some dislike certain ships, some dislike Thorax, the Cutie Mark Crusaders, etc. You don't have to like them, but you should not expect the writers to conform to your point of view, just because you don't like them. 

Really?

Because from what I can tell... the show is shoving these horrible not redeemed at all in any way whatsoever characters down my throat and clearly expecting me to like them and act as if they are 'redeemed.'

HA HA. NO.

On 11/25/2017 at 2:59 PM, Friendship is Horses said:

Hear, hear! It's a wildly subjective turn of phrase.

See above.

 

I can fight all night if I have to. I have no problem in doing that in any way whatsoever.

Try actually proving your point and try to convince me that I'm wrong and I'll tear it apart piece by piece.

 

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On 11/26/2017 at 6:52 PM, LostSanity said:

People that hold grudges for long periods of time are the worst kinds of people actually so your just kind of proving my point about Starlight.

[EDIT] Now with 87% less commentary! I'm sorry for abusing you, LS. It takes all kinds to make a forum.

Still gonna leave this quote here, though. It really is perfect.

 

Edited by Friendship is Horses
Lack of good horsemanship

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21 minutes ago, Friendship is Horses said:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

(huff, huff)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT?

Oh my GOD this is perfect. This is the best thing ever. Talk about people hating in others what they see in themselves.

Mr. One Track Mind Vendetta comes out against long-term grudges, reveals self to be a massive hypocrite, ex-tray, ex-tray! Truly you are a black hole of self-awareness.

Do not insult other users please

 

As well, keep this discussion under control. If it starts getting wild I will lock it

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4 hours ago, LostSanity said:

...

Also... you don't forgive someone for mind control. You just don't.

...

Meanwhile, Twilight Sparkle casts a "want it, need it" spell in "Lesson Zero" and the Cutie Mark Crusaders give Cheerilee and Big Mac some punch spiked with a love poison in "Hearts And Hooves Day" and everyone in Ponyville forgave them as much as the Mane Six did with Starlight. And that's not getting into the implications in the first Equestria Girls movie where Twilight might have brainwashed Sunset in order to make her good. Let's face it, the mind control tomfoolery in MLP:FIM goes way beyond Starlight. Starlight just happened to be the point where the mind control took its last steps past stupid and heinous and into "What the hell is this crap!?" territory.

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20 hours ago, LostSanity said:

Because from what I can tell... the show is shoving these horrible not redeemed at all in any way whatsoever characters down my throat and clearly expecting me to like them and act as if they are 'redeemed.'

You're asking us to prove certain things, yet you yourself have not been doing that either. This statement is very subjective. You think they're doing this to you, but this really is only an opinion and you cannot expect us to believe this and take it at face value. Plus you've been repeating yourself every time we make an argument, which is only further sinking your arguments.

Plus the whole Starlight redeeming herself? Look up every episode where she makes mention of her past sin of taking over an entire village. She brings this up over several episodes, even into Season 7! And she brings this up because she knows the guilt still lingers, and she honestly feels like people like Twilight may never fully forgive her for what she did. I mean, if you look at the beginning of Episode 25 of Season 6, her own fear and guilt get the best of her that she ends up running away from the town because she can't handle the anxiety of everyone accepting her so easily like they did. Sure, you're going to say "you don't forgive someone for mind control. You just don't." And I could see that, having a dictator rule over you for so long is not something that could be easily forgiven, if at all. But remember, THIS IS A F**KING CHILDRENS CARTOON FOR YOUNG CHILDREN!!!!!!!

If you actually had children of your own, are you going to tell them, "Hey, if you're ever ruled over by a nasty dictator who wants to make your life miserable, you should hate them for the rest of your life!"? Believe it or not, there have been plenty of people who were done wrong by some of the most terrible people in the world, but somehow they managed to actually forgive them. Shocking, ain't it? This cartoon show is not about showing animosity towards other, the title of the show is "Friendship is Magic" for pete sake!

If you're seriously going to hold a grudge against characters who have been forgiven by fictional characters in a fictional cartoon, then you really need to seek some therapy, because this is not doing well for your mental health. Trust me, I've been down that road. I got so angry one day I was literally sick for 2 days straight and had to seek some consoling and therapy to calm my anger issues down. I'd suggest you do the same.

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1 hour ago, Toki Zensekai said:

You're asking us to prove certain things, yet you yourself have not been doing that either. This statement is very subjective. You think they're doing this to you, but this really is only an opinion and you cannot expect us to believe this and take it at face value. Plus you've been repeating yourself every time we make an argument, which is only further sinking your arguments.

Plus the whole Starlight redeeming herself? Look up every episode where she makes mention of her past sin of taking over an entire village. She brings this up over several episodes, even into Season 7! And she brings this up because she knows the guilt still lingers, and she honestly feels like people like Twilight may never fully forgive her for what she did. I mean, if you look at the beginning of Episode 25 of Season 6, her own fear and guilt get the best of her that she ends up running away from the town because she can't handle the anxiety of everyone accepting her so easily like they did. Sure, you're going to say "you don't forgive someone for mind control. You just don't." And I could see that, having a dictator rule over you for so long is not something that could be easily forgiven, if at all. But remember, THIS IS A F**KING CHILDRENS CARTOON FOR YOUNG CHILDREN!!!!!!!

If you actually had children of your own, are you going to tell them, "Hey, if you're ever ruled over by a nasty dictator who wants to make your life miserable, you should hate them for the rest of your life!"? Believe it or not, there have been plenty of people who were done wrong by some of the most terrible people in the world, but somehow they managed to actually forgive them. Shocking, ain't it? This cartoon show is not about showing animosity towards other, the title of the show is "Friendship is Magic" for pete sake!

If you're seriously going to hold a grudge against characters who have been forgiven by fictional characters in a fictional cartoon, then you really need to seek some therapy, because this is not doing well for your mental health. Trust me, I've been down that road. I got so angry one day I was literally sick for 2 days straight and had to seek some consoling and therapy to calm my anger issues down. I'd suggest you do the same.

You know, i used to tolerate his nonsense, but even for a downright double backer like me, im willing to say in this thread, hes just gone full on hypocrisy, and thats coming from me, of all people.

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21 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

Meanwhile, Twilight Sparkle casts a "want it, need it" spell in "Lesson Zero" and the Cutie Mark Crusaders give Cheerilee and Big Mac some punch spiked with a love poison in "Hearts And Hooves Day" and everyone in Ponyville forgave them as much as the Mane Six did with Starlight. And that's not getting into the implications in the first Equestria Girls movie where Twilight might have brainwashed Sunset in order to make her good. Let's face it, the mind control tomfoolery in MLP:FIM goes way beyond Starlight. Starlight just happened to be the point where the mind control took its last steps past stupid and heinous and into "What the hell is this crap!?" territory.

Those were different though and wasn't full mind control. Starlight's was flat out mind control. There are clear differences.

 

You know... this is starting to get to the point where I almost feel like I'm being FORCED to do this as well. I'm not sure anything to going to convince me that I'm wrong.

Regardless...

 

PAGE BREAK

 

1 hour ago, Toki Zensekai said:

You're asking us to prove certain things, yet you yourself have not been doing that either. This statement is very subjective. You think they're doing this to you, but this really is only an opinion and you cannot expect us to believe this and take it at face value. Plus you've been repeating yourself every time we make an argument, which is only further sinking your arguments.

Plus the whole Starlight redeeming herself? Look up every episode where she makes mention of her past sin of taking over an entire village. She brings this up over several episodes, even into Season 7! And she brings this up because she knows the guilt still lingers, and she honestly feels like people like Twilight may never fully forgive her for what she did. I mean, if you look at the beginning of Episode 25 of Season 6, her own fear and guilt get the best of her that she ends up running away from the town because she can't handle the anxiety of everyone accepting her so easily like they did. Sure, you're going to say "you don't forgive someone for mind control. You just don't." And I could see that, having a dictator rule over you for so long is not something that could be easily forgiven, if at all. But remember, THIS IS A F**KING CHILDRENS CARTOON FOR YOUNG CHILDREN!!!!!!!

If you actually had children of your own, are you going to tell them, "Hey, if you're ever ruled over by a nasty dictator who wants to make your life miserable, you should hate them for the rest of your life!"? Believe it or not, there have been plenty of people who were done wrong by some of the most terrible people in the world, but somehow they managed to actually forgive them. Shocking, ain't it? This cartoon show is not about showing animosity towards other, the title of the show is "Friendship is Magic" for pete sake!

If you're seriously going to hold a grudge against characters who have been forgiven by fictional characters in a fictional cartoon, then you really need to seek some therapy, because this is not doing well for your mental health. Trust me, I've been down that road. I got so angry one day I was literally sick for 2 days straight and had to seek some consoling and therapy to calm my anger issues down. I'd suggest you do the same.

Wow. Another insult. Almost makes me not want to respond to this either.

I'm actually quite fine. Therapy is not needed and too expensive and I can't afford it.

You really want me to do that? Then pay for it for me.

Yeah. Didn't think so.

I've proved my point with examples which is good enough as far as I'm concerned. If you can't accept that, that's not exactly a problem on my end.

I'm repeating it because no one is given anything to convince me that I'm wrong. Which you have failed to achieve as well.

You gave one example. Which lasted, what? 1 minute of the episode at most? That's not struggling with what you did. I'm not rewatching episodes. Because I can't get myself to do that anymore. I only need to watch an episode once and it's hard for me to rewatch the episodes. Particularly the Starlight ones. Those ones in particular make me want to repeatedly bang my head on a wall. So I won't be doing that.

Instead of expecting me to do more work try actually providing specific examples from specific episodes and I'll respond to them and tear them apart piece by piece.

Also... the 'children's cartoon' doesn't fly either. It became popular and reached people outside it's 'target demographic' so that doesn't make it immune to criticism that is not only seemingly accurate, but seems to be without actual evidence or examples to the contrary to make me think otherwise.

Sure that's the title of the show but that doesn't give characters the right be de-facto dictators and get off scot free and then turn around and use mind control and once again get off scot free.

Also... I don't have children and probably never will. There are reasons for this but it's off-topic and not a part of this.

As I stated before, pay for it for me and I'll do it.

Yep. Didn't think so.

To be honest... I don't need it. Because I'm pointing out things that seemingly have no convincing material to make me think otherwise.

 

So yeah.

If this continues and all I continue to get are insults... then your all just proving my point about the brony fandom becoming increasingly toxic and just wanting me swallow all of this ridiculous BS and pretend as if it's the most delicious thing I've ever tasted, which in reality, it's the worst tasting medicine ever made.

It's times like this I wish I could take said bad tasting medicine and shove it down the throats of those who claim it's delicious and see how they like it.

One more chance.

That's all your getting.

Then...

I DECLARE THE VERDICT.

giphy.gif

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14 minutes ago, LostSanity said:

Those were different though and wasn't full mind control. Starlight's was flat out mind control. There are clear differences.

True, but partial mind control can be every bit as damaging as full mind control. Heck, just look at any dystopian story involving classical conditioning.

 

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As this mascarade of a debate goes on, everybody gets tired of running in circles in an argument that hasn't progressed since the first statement, hence explaining the escalation of angerness that's currently happening. 

 

LostSanity, once again you've been completly holed up behind your opinions, dismissing anything that would get in the way of your bias. If it's the way you intend to argue then I'll have to forbid you to make or participate in any kind of debate until you learn to open your mind. 

It surprises me that they cared about you this much to keep arguing when you've been in such bad faith. Or maybe they were just defending their waifu, which would make more sense.

In any case, I'll let you announce your completly predictable verdict right now (that means I don't wanna see anyone arguing after this post) before I draw the curtains on this comedy.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, WaterPulse said:

True, but partial mind control can be every bit as damaging as full mind control. Heck, just look at any dystopian story involving classical conditioning.

I suppose so.

The fact remains though that there are very obvious and clear differences.

32 minutes ago, Frécinette said:

As this mascarade of a debate goes on, everybody gets tired of running in circles in an argument that hasn't progressed since the first statement, hence explaining the escalation of angerness that's currently happening. 

 

LostSanity, once again you've been completly holed up behind your opinions, dismissing anything that would get in the way of your bias. If it's the way you intend to argue then I'll have to forbid you to make or participate in any kind of debate until you learn to open your mind. 

It surprises me that they cared about you this much to keep arguing when you've been in such bad faith. Or maybe they were just defending their waifu, which would make more sense.

In any case, I'll let you announce your completly predictable verdict right now (that means I don't wanna see anyone arguing after this post) before I draw the curtains on this comedy.

 

 

No I haven't. I gave them an opportunity to convince me I was wrong. Then I ripped their so called 'evidence' to shreds.

I did open my mind. They just have done absolutely nothing to convince me that I'm wrong.

Actually let them respond. I said they had one more chance to convince me that I'm wrong and I meant it.

Also it's not a comedy. They have done nothing to show or to convince me that I'm wrong in any way whatsoever.

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8 minutes ago, LostSanity said:

...

The fact remains though that there are very obvious and clear differences.

...

Still, Twilight could have talked to Celestia about her issues in "Lesson Zero", just as Starlight could have talked to Twilight in "Every Little Thing She Does".

On a related note, as I mentioned before, I could probably forgive Starlight mind controlling the Mane Six somewhat if the show, well, showed us the process of Starlight changing rather than telling that she has changed. You know, what you've been saying the writers should have done. ELTSD would still suck, but at least a good attempt at developing Starlight would have lessened the blow.

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In the same fashion you haven't made any effort to convince anyone that you're right, hence the joke that became this thread but whatever, I'll humor you and let anyone try again if they want.

However once this is done you will not only close this discussion but any futur discussion you planned to have on the "horrid, redeemed characters".

Consider this your last windmill, Don Quixote.

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On 11/26/2017 at 3:52 PM, LostSanity said:

No she hasn't.

Try proving it instead of just claiming it.

How is OP Mary Sue struggling with what she did? Because I fail to see it in any way whatsoever.

1:06-1:17 of this clip, from "Every Little Thing She Does"

There's your proof. If you still can't see how Starlight is learning from her mistakes, then you are willfully blind.

 

On 11/26/2017 at 3:52 PM, LostSanity said:

Also... you don't forgive someone for mind control. You just don't.

You keep repeating that line as if it's some absolute moral truth. But the reality is, that's just your subjective opinion of what is or isn't forgivable. Some people are more forgiving than others. Everybody has different standards of morality, even in terms of what is or isn't forgivable. So just because you don't want to forgive Starlight, doesn't mean that every pony in the fictional MLP universe should do the same. 

 

 

On 11/26/2017 at 3:52 PM, LostSanity said:

I could care less if they are convincing to you or not. How about explaining why instead of just taking the easy way out?

See above

 

On 11/26/2017 at 3:52 PM, LostSanity said:

People that hold grudges for long periods of time are the worst kinds of people actually so your just kind of proving my point about Starlight.

As @Friendship is Horses and others have pointed out, "The Pot Calls the Kettle Black"

 

On 11/26/2017 at 3:52 PM, LostSanity said:

Of course it's unrealistic and I already explained why. So I won't be doing it again. Try responding to what I actually said.

What did you say that addresses and refutes my point? I re-read your posts in the previous page of this thread, and could not find a good counter-argument. I would be happy to hear it, if you care to say it again. And if you don't care, then...whatever.

 

On 11/26/2017 at 3:52 PM, LostSanity said:

Really?

Because from what I can tell... the show is shoving these horrible not redeemed at all in any way whatsoever characters down my throat and clearly expecting me to like them and act as if they are 'redeemed.'

I have every reason to think they are redeemed (though not made perfect). Discord is no longer turning Equestria into a land of chocolate rain and floating houses. Starlight has learned from Twilight what it means to be a friend, and demonstrated such in her friendship with Maud Pie. Etc. Yes, they still have character flaws like all other ponies, but that's a far-cry from saying that they are not redeemed. If you can't see the difference, then that only shows your willful ignorance.  

 

As for "expecting [you] to like them" .....Hellooooo? The world does not revolve around you. The show was not made just for you. There are hundreds of Starlight fans out there who love to see her, and the writers are giving them just that. There are many who couldn't care less about Starlight, yet enjoy the show nonetheless in spite of her presence. You are not entitled to a Starlight-less show, just because you don't like her. The writers are doing what they think is best for the show, believe it or not, even though it may not appear so at times to some critics. So regardless of your reasons for disliking Starlight, that does not give you the excuse to play the victim card, as if the BIG BAD WRITERS are out to get you...

 

Don't get me wrong, you have the right to dislike Starlight. You have the right not to forgive her. You have the right to believe the show has gone downhill since Season 5. But by the same token, we have the right to opine that your opinions are wrong and that your reasons for it are unfounded or irrational. That doesn't mean we "can't tolerate negative opinions." It just means we don't find your arguments compelling. 

 

  

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54 minutes ago, ChB said:

1:06-1:17 of this clip, from "Every Little Thing She Does"

There's your proof. If you can't see how Starlight is learning from her mistakes, then you are willfully blind.

...

I think the problem with stuff like that that is that most of Starlight's development either occurs off screen or happens in quick bursts such as this. A lot of Starlight's haters feel they weren't/aren't given enough time to adjust and connect to Starlight's character and, as a result, they feel her development is rushed at best or shallow (and possibly even fake) at worst. IMO, If the writers wanted to do an episode like "Every Little Thing She Does", the best course of action would be to ease said haters into the shallow end of the pool instead of chucking them in the deep end like they did following ELTSD with "To Where And Back Again".

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10 minutes ago, WaterPulse said:

I think the problem with stuff like that that is that most of Starlight's development either occurs off screen or happens in quick bursts such as this. A lot of Starlight's haters feel they weren't/aren't given enough time to adjust and connect to Starlight's character and, as a result, they feel her development is rushed at best or shallow (and possibly even fake) at worst. IMO, If the writers wanted to do an episode like "Every Little Thing She Does", the best course of action would be to ease said haters into the shallow end of the pool instead of chucking them in the deep end like they did following ELTSD with "To Where And Back Again".

That's fair. I will never deny that the writers could have done better at times. It's just that in this case, they did good enough for me. 

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*yawns*

Not what I wanted to do this morning. Had other things I wanted to do.

Oh well...

17 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

Still, Twilight could have talked to Celestia about her issues in "Lesson Zero", just as Starlight could have talked to Twilight in "Every Little Thing She Does".

On a related note, as I mentioned before, I could probably forgive Starlight mind controlling the Mane Six somewhat if the show, well, showed us the process of Starlight changing rather than telling that she has changed. You know, what you've been saying the writers should have done. ELTSD would still suck, but at least a good attempt at developing Starlight would have lessened the blow.

I can't forgive her at all for flat out mind control and getting off scot-free. I just can't.

But I will somewhat agree with this.

17 hours ago, Frécinette said:

In the same fashion you haven't made any effort to convince anyone that you're right, hence the joke that became this thread but whatever, I'll humor you and let anyone try again if they want.

However once this is done you will not only close this discussion but any futur discussion you planned to have on the "horrid, redeemed characters".

Consider this your last windmill, Don Quixote.

The point was actually supposed to be the other way around. Others trying to convince me that I'm wrong. I don't have to convince others that I'm right.

Also I haven't done anything against any forum rules as far as I'm aware.

14 hours ago, ChB said:

1:06-1:17 of this clip, from "Every Little Thing She Does"

There's your proof. If you still can't see how Starlight is learning from her mistakes, then you are willfully blind.

Honestly... this isn't good enough for me. She shouldn't have done flat out mind control in the first place. It was a half-assed apology.

14 hours ago, ChB said:

You keep repeating that line as if it's some absolute moral truth. But the reality is, that's just your subjective opinion of what is or isn't forgivable. Some people are more forgiving than others. Everybody has different standards of morality, even in terms of what is or isn't forgivable. So just because you don't want to forgive Starlight, doesn't mean that every pony in the fictional MLP universe should do the same. 

Sure I guess that's true.

That really doesn't change the fact that punishment should have been a consequence.

14 hours ago, ChB said:

See above

Already responded.

14 hours ago, ChB said:

 and others have pointed out, "The Pot Calls the Kettle Black"

I really don't see the point of this. I was making a point about a character and nothing else.

14 hours ago, ChB said:

What did you say that addresses and refutes my point? I re-read your posts in the previous page of this thread, and could not find a good counter-argument. I would be happy to hear it, if you care to say it again. And if you don't care, then...whatever.

It's there your just ignoring it. I hate repeating myself.

14 hours ago, ChB said:

I have every reason to think they are redeemed (though not made perfect). Discord is no longer turning Equestria into a land of chocolate rain and floating houses. Starlight has learned from Twilight what it means to be a friend, and demonstrated such in her friendship with Maud Pie. Etc. Yes, they still have character flaws like all other ponies, but that's a far-cry from saying that they are not redeemed. If you can't see the difference, then that only shows your willful ignorance.

Actually it's the opposite. They aren't redeemed. I absolutely see the difference so again it's the other way around. No ignorance here.

14 hours ago, ChB said:

As for "expecting [you] to like them" .....Hellooooo? The world does not revolve around you. The show was not made just for you. There are hundreds of Starlight fans out there who love to see her, and the writers are giving them just that. There are many who couldn't care less about Starlight, yet enjoy the show nonetheless in spite of her presence. You are not entitled to a Starlight-less show, just because you don't like her. The writers are doing what they think is best for the show, believe it or not, even though it may not appear so at times to some critics. So regardless of your reasons for disliking Starlight, that does not give you the excuse to play the victim card, as if the BIG BAD WRITERS are out to get you...

Which isn't what I'm doing. All I'm doing is pointing out how large of a dumpster fire this 'show' has become.

14 hours ago, ChB said:

Don't get me wrong, you have the right to dislike Starlight. You have the right not to forgive her. You have the right to believe the show has gone downhill since Season 5. But by the same token, we have the right to opine that your opinions are wrong and that your reasons for it are unfounded or irrational. That doesn't mean we "can't tolerate negative opinions." It just means we don't find your arguments compelling. 

And I don't find any of these so-called 'counter-arguments' compelling either. It works both ways.

13 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

I think the problem with stuff like that that is that most of Starlight's development either occurs off screen or happens in quick bursts such as this. A lot of Starlight's haters feel they weren't/aren't given enough time to adjust and connect to Starlight's character and, as a result, they feel her development is rushed at best or shallow (and possibly even fake) at worst. IMO, If the writers wanted to do an episode like "Every Little Thing She Does", the best course of action would be to ease said haters into the shallow end of the pool instead of chucking them in the deep end like they did following ELTSD with "To Where And Back Again".

Do you see this post? Because it's 100% accurate.

13 hours ago, ChB said:

That's fair. I will never deny that the writers could have done better at times. It's just that in this case, they did good enough for me. 

And it was horrendous crap being shoved down my throat to me.

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4 hours ago, LostSanity said:

...

The point was actually supposed to be the other way around. Others trying to convince me that I'm wrong. I don't have to convince others that I'm right.

...

And yet, an actual trial requires both parties in a conflict - not one or the other, both - to present their case as right, including introducing the case itself and to cross examine each other.

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1 hour ago, WaterPulse said:

And yet, an actual trial requires both parties in a conflict - not one or the other, both - to present their case as right, including introducing the case itself and to cross examine each other.

Which I did. With absolutely nothing to convince me that I'm wrong.

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5 hours ago, LostSanity said:

Which I did. With absolutely nothing to convince me that I'm wrong.

Because, honestly, there is nothing to convince you. People I know who have stopped watching the show are usually due to a character or characters they hate and will continue to absolutely hate them no matter what anyone tells them. You're not any different from them. If anything, you've been pretty hypocritical because you're complaining about the writers wanting to cram their ideals down your throat and at the same time you're trying to tell us that your own opinions are fact and trying to cram that down our own throats. So in reality, nothing we're going to say at this point will change your mind. And to be frank, if you're going to be this toxic towards us (ironic since you're calling us toxic), you should probably just do everyone of us a favor and just leave.

It's probably for the best at this point.

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5 hours ago, LostSanity said:

Which I did. With absolutely nothing to convince me that I'm wrong.

And yet you've done little to actually sway people to your side of the argument.

On 11/27/2017 at 5:41 PM, LostSanity said:

...

Instead of expecting me to do more work try actually providing specific examples from specific episodes and I'll respond to them and tear them apart piece by piece.

...

You do realize this is not how an actual trial works either. The prosecution doesn't sit around after the opening arguments and let the defense do all the work (and vice versa).

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16 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

Because, honestly, there is nothing to convince you. People I know who have stopped watching the show are usually due to a character or characters they hate and will continue to absolutely hate them no matter what anyone tells them. You're not any different from them. If anything, you've been pretty hypocritical because you're complaining about the writers wanting to cram their ideals down your throat and at the same time you're trying to tell us that your own opinions are fact and trying to cram that down our own throats. So in reality, nothing we're going to say at this point will change your mind. And to be frank, if you're going to be this toxic towards us (ironic since you're calling us toxic), you should probably just do everyone of us a favor and just leave.

It's probably for the best at this point.

Actually I'm not. There's just been nothing to convince me otherwise.

I'm not being toxic. It's once again the other way around.

16 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

And yet you've done little to actually sway people to your side of the argument.

Which wasn't the point of this. I'm only going to say this one more time because I'm sick of repeating myself. The point was for someone to convince me that I was wrong. Which has not, and seemingly isn't going to happen.

16 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

You do realize this is not how an actual trial works either. The prosecution doesn't sit around after the opening arguments and let the defense do all the work (and vice versa).

I did provide examples. They weren't examples from the show but they were examples all the same.

 

Addendum:

Tempest Shadow is yet another example of horrible, half thought out, ridiculous redemptions and why I don't think I'll be touching the movie either.

Because it's another Dumpster Fire of a redemption.

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1 hour ago, LostSanity said:

Actually I'm not. There's just been nothing to convince me otherwise.

I'm not being toxic. It's once again the other way around.

...

Remember that conversation you had with Clark about how whether or not there was a point to Starlight being in "Rock Solid Friendship"? And how Clark said that it was to expand Starlight's character? This was your response:

 

On 9/1/2017 at 5:10 PM, LostSanity said:

Try doing something more productive then trying to change my opinion.

Because changing my opinion on this matter is not happening. End of story.

:newspaper:

Not only was this the last post you made in that topic, but it was at a point where the writers were fumbling the ball again with Starlight's development. You could have said "So what? They've done nothing with Starlight and Maud's friendship, it's pretty much window dressing. Why should I care?" And by the time you set up this topic, Thrond made this exact same point with his reviews of the last few episodes.

You had the perfect opportunity to completely Superman punch Clark's argument right there and then and you threw it away.

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