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To be honest... I didn't want to have to do this. But there seems to be little choice at this point. As I can't make a solid decision one way or the other if I stick with this fandom or throw everything out, drop everything like a rock, and probably become an anti-brony.

Depending on how others respond to this will likely factor into my decision as well. In other words... check your BS at the door basically.

Also... I said I would keep the bold and caps to a minimum. Which I promise I'll do my best to keep, but I make no guarantees. But I didn't say a damn thing about language. Keep this in mind as well.

Either way... let my trial of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic commence.

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So... this little show... 'My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic' has been going on for 7 seasons now with an 8th upcoming.

Back when the show first started... I liked it believe it or not. I really did. But... things have changed. The question is... why have they changed? Well... I'll be getting into that as well. In a way.

I mean... I liked this show. I'm not even joking. I did. For about 5 seasons.

Then... things changed.

There are pretty much 6 main issues I have with the show right now. Each one factoring into my decision to either stay or leave in their own, unique, individual way. I'll go through them one bye one.

The first 3 reasons are basically the same though honestly. The so-called 'redeemed' characters. Those being, of course, Starlight Glimmer, Trixie, and Discord.

But are they redeemed? Truly?

To me... they aren't. In any way whatsoever.

1. First let's talk about the obvious ones. First up is Starlight Glimmer. This character was a decent and legitimate villain. De-facto dictatorship. You don't see that all that often. So I applauded it. Until the S5 finale. Her reasoning for what she did was the most ridiculous excuse I've ever heard of in my entire life honestly. She did all that because she lost a friend? Wow. Just wow. Go look the freaking friend up. Or... here's an option... make new friends dumbass. Then there was the redemption itself. Which I would call the Baron Corbin of redemptions. In other words... it was freaking dumpster fire. Unbelievably rushed, made no sense whatsoever, and just horrible in general. This dumbass practically committed a crime. Messing with the time-space continuum is, to me, worse then murder. Yet she was forgiven as if nothing happened and everyone of the characters pretends that it didn't happen and never happened. No. Just no. There should have been a punishment. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. End of freaking story. She committed a crime and deserved a punishment. Don't believe me? Has anyone else gotten away with a dictatorship scot free and forgiven as if it never happened? The answer here should be obvious. Research dictatorships in history if you don't believe me. The common sense answer is NO. DICTATORS AREN'T FORGIVEN AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED.

Another thing... I'll admit there's one thing that is consistently being proven when it comes to Starlight.

Which is the fact that she has absolutely no common sense whatsoever. Another thing she had done, which no one has ever been forgiven for and acted as if it never happened, is using mind control. She did that to her so-called 'friends' and got off scot-free as if it didn't happen.

Has anyone else that has used mind control gotten away with it and treated as if it never happened? Again... the answer is blatantly obvious and common sense.

Starlight is on a high horse and needs to be taken down several pegs. She's OP and honestly, somewhat of a Mary-Stu if you ask me. I don't care how much the shows claims she studied magic. Twilight studied longer and, therefore, should be more powerful and had freaking Celestia as a teacher and we're just supposed to believe that Starlight self-taught her OP-ness? Yeah I don't think so.

2. Next... it's the worst of the worst if you ask me. Trixie.

This character... is just... NO. JUST NO.

Does this character actually have any redeeming factors? Another question with an obvious answer. Which is NO. NO SHE DOESN'T.

Trixie is an ego-maniacal, self-absorbed, egotistical, holier-than-thou bitch. I'm sorry but she just is. Not only that... she takes every opportunity she has to annoy Twilight. THAT IS NOT A CHARACTER TRAIT. IT'S A CHARACTER FLAW AND A MAJOR ONE AT THAT.

Has she, or Starlight for that matter, actually done anything to show that they have changed? To me... the haven't. At all. In any way whatsoever. Chrysalis doesn't really count because she captured all of the Mane 6 and Princesses (which I still don't understand how she did that) and apparently the writers choose these un-redeemed assholes instead of the 'Slice of Life' characters which should have been the characters to save them instead if you ask me. But I'll get into the writers later.

But to finish Trixie off once and for all... she's an egotistical bitch who thinks she deserves everything when all she really deserves is a Superman Punch to the face. She's the Kevin Owens of this show NOT THE ROMAN REIGNS OF THE SHOW SO INCORRECT ON SO MANY LEVELS.

3. Next let's talk about Discord. There's really nothing for me to say about here though. He's not redeemed either. All this jerkass has proven is that he also takes every opportunity he has to annoy the characters whenever he gets the chance. AGAIN NOT A CHARACTER TRAIT A CHARACTER FLAW AND A MAJOR ONE. You know what Discord has proven? That he only cares about Fluttershy and that's it. He clearly could care less about anyone else other than himself. No only that, he should have been turned back to stone when he betrayed everyone when he worked for Tirek. Yet no. Once again, forgiven as if he did nothing wrong and everyone acts like it didn't happen.

This asshole has lost his chance at redemption honestly. He should have been turned back to stone and really needs to be turned back to stone. But will he? Our wonderful writers at work once again...

1, 2, & 3 Addendum:

You know what I think my main problem is?

That these characters in question (Starlight, Trixie, and Discord) aren't actually struggling with what they've done. I mean... if these characters were actually consistently struggling and/or being haunted with what they've done... then maybe, just maybe I'd be more willing to accept it.

But they aren't, haven't been, and seemingly never will be. Because this show is acting as if everything they've done never happened. Which may be the worst and most horrendous part of all this.

I think that's my main issue.

4. Let's talk about the writers of the show now. They used to be good. But now? NOT ANYMORE. I don't know what happened to them but they seem to have lost use of their brains and their common sense as well.

As I've been thinking about this... some of the fault most likely lies with the writers/show runners/whatever you want to call them. They seem to be getting talentless hacks who have consistently proven that either a) they're hypocrites (Fame and Misfortune) who attack their own fandom for complaining about complaining yet they continue to shove things down our throats and expect us to just like and accept them b) they didn't actually take the extra mile and do actual research on the show. As in, oh I don't know, watching all the other episodes before they actually started writing them themselves? I mean, even I go the extra mile when I write fanfiction on media and I don't even consider myself a writer. Something else that should have been flat out common sense. I even did this back when I was true fan of this show/series and wrote an insane crossover fanfiction with this and a bunch of other media (anime, video games, other cartoons, etc.) When I wasn't sure about something, I took the time to do research and look it up to make sure I knew what I was doing and what I was talking about.

Yet these so-called 'writers/show runners/whatever' didn't seem to do that at all and just started writing as if they knew what they were doing when they continue to prove that they don't and are flat out hypocrites. They should have watched all the previous episodes so they had a basic idea of what the show was doing, where it was going, and what to do when they started writing. Yet they didn't, clearly haven't, and seemingly never will. It's too little to late at this point to do that. But still.

In other words, some of the blame for the direction of this show and why it's beginning to shove things down our throats may actually lie with the current talentless hack writers/show runners/whatever.

Plus... let's not forget that the current writers have basically confirmed themselves to be nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. Don't believe me? Fame and Misfortune would like a word with you, where the writers practically attacked their own freaking fandom that pretty much cause their shows popularity in the first place. Hypocritical much? Yes. Yes it is. Especially when you shove horrible, half-assed, half thought out redemptions down our throats and just expect us to like them and except them and then expect us to like said so-called 'redeemed' character. LOL. I DON'T THINK SO.

The writers are at fault for all this BS as well.

5. Next... let's talk about the brony fandom itself. It was decent at first. Not so much anymore now is it?

Practically every so-called 'fan' of this show/series on practically every so-called 'fan forum' I've been on has the same BS expectations from me that the talentless hack writers do. Which is, of course, expecting me to like all this BS being shoved down my throat and just accept it and like it as if it's THE GREATEST THING EVER when it clearly ISN'T and seemingly HASN'T for quite a long time now.

Practically everyone wants me to like Starlight Glimmer and act like she's redeemed. NO.

Practically everyone wants me to like Trixie and act like she's redeemed. GOD NO.

Practically everyone wants me to like Discord and act like he's redeemed. YEAH I DON'T THINK SO.

Yet what happens when I don't and I have this clearly controversial opinion that I have? Everyone nags and bitches at me. Constantly. I won't name any names but they know who they are and there are a few on this very forum that have also done this. They act as if my opinion is crap, I have no reason to have it, and I should change it immediately. As if I should 'fall in line' with everyone else?

Guess what that is? Here it is again everyone!! De-facto dictatorship.

Your not supposed to be the 'same' as everyone else. Your supposed to be unique. Yourself. Different. Out of line. Not 'fall in line'

Apparently the brony fandom didn't get this memo. Must have been lost. Or ignored. I'm guessing ignored. I refuse to 'fall in line'. End of story.

6. Now let's talk about the rumors of Chrysalis getting a redemption in Season 8. NO. JUST NO. I'm not even going to list the reasons why. There are just too many and it would make this even longer. What is the reason for this? Because I fail to see one. At all. In any way whatsoever.

Notice a pattern yet? Let me spell it out for you.

I'm sick of the redemption's. Especially when they are half-thought out, half-assed, horrible dumpster fires like the ones I already mentioned have been. I'm fairly sure this one would be no different. I just can't take the redemption's anymore. I really can't. If Chrysalis is redeemed I don't think I'll even care how it's done. I'LL QUIT. NO QUESTIONS ASKED. END OF STORY. Because there is absolutely no reason to do this in any way whatsoever. This is my main concern with staying. I don't want to take the risk of having to go through yet another half-thought out, half-assed dumpster fire so-called 'redemption.'

You want to know how to do a redemption? FINE.

Go watch Season 2 of The Lion Guard. You see what they are doing with Makuu? Even though I don't fully consider him redeemed (at least not yet) THAT'S HOW YOU DO A REDEMPTION not the half-thought out, half-assed horrible dumbster fires the talentless hack hypocritical so-called 'writers' are doing.

 

With that... I end my opening statements. These are my main problems with this show.

Think you can convince me otherwise? Good luck. You'll need it.

TL;DR:

Starlight is a dumbass with absolutely no common sense whatsoever that has clearly learned nothing.

Trixie is an egotistical, ego-maniacal, holier-than-though bitch who has clearly learned nothing.

Discord is a jerkass who has clearly learned nothing.

The so-called 'redeemed' characters aren't struggling with what they have done at all.

The writers are hypocritical talentless hacks.

The brony fandom is expecting me to 'fall in line' and accept and like all this BS being shoved down my throat and has becoming incredibly toxic.

Chrysalis DOES NOT, SHOULD NOT, and CAN NOT be redeemed in any way whatsoever.

 

U MAD?

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COME AT ME

 

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You have quite a lot written here, with a lot of points that are quite arguable. As such, I will write up my argument for this case, but it will have to wait until the weekend because there's a lot to go over, plus I have other obligations to take care of by Saturday. But mark my words, what you throw at with Dangonropa, I'll hit back with Ace Attorney!

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@LostSanity

Here's some of my thoughts:

1. I think the only villain I can see coming close to a successful redemption is Luna, if only because he got to see her thoughts and actions, and even that was kind of flawed. Diamond Tiara's was a bit off due to her mother appearing at the last minute. King Sombra's backstory in the comic was interesting, but its execution was just as bad as Discord's (and considering this is the one redemption you actually like, I can't help but look at your complaints about Starlight's dictatorship with skepticism). At least Square(-Enix) was smart enough to keep Sephiroth as a villain after the shit he pulled in Final Fantasy 7 and the anime version of Mewtwo had a bit of character development in Mewtwo Returns. Due to Hasbro's mandates and the reception to Siege Of The Crystal Empire, I doubt we will see any payoff to Sombra's redemption anytime soon.

2. I think Fame And Misfortune's problem is that any impact it could have had was pretty much gone by the time it aired, due to a combination of "Stranger Than Fanficiton" (which did the concept better) and many of the criticisms being taken to heart, such as Fluttershy's development. To put it in perspective, it would be like if Sega dedicated the bulk of Sonic Colors to jabbing the fans for criticizing Sonic '06.

3. This exchange about "Rock Solid Friendship":

 

On 8/31/2017 at 1:20 PM, LostSanity said:

They could have easily replaced her with one of the Mane 6 and gotten the same exact episode. Plus, it would have been better.

 

On 8/31/2017 at 3:23 PM, Captain Clark said:

No, we wouldn't have gotten the exact same episode. Maud has already met the mane 6 and has already established a relationship with them. They are friendly, but not very close. That isn't going to change much as Maud's debut episode implies.

 

You have once again completely missed the point of that episode. The point is to expand the friendship circles of both Maud and Starlight. You won't be able to do that with an already established relationship!

 

How would it have been better? You are not looking at it OBJECTIVELY. What did Starlight do wrong in this episode? Absolutely fucking nothing. You are just hating for the sake of hating!!!

Yeah, I have to agree with Clark about this. The point was to try and expand Starlight's character. Whether or not it was done well, especially in the long run, is an entirely different story (short answer: probably not), and it seems you were just as pissed at the writers even attempting this as you were in the execution. Not helped by the fact that your last post in that topic has you storming out in a huff rather than point that out.

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I agree with almost everything to 100%. About the writers, about the fandom and the characters.

 

I only disagree with Chrysalis. I'm actually done with the show and the fandom. Now I just want to watch the toxic fandom burn by the hack writers redeeming Chrysalis in the lamest way possible. There's no hope for Celestia, Discord, Starlight or Trixie to look good in any way. Instead you get uninteresting stuff like the pillars, the 4th, 5th or 6th time Nightmare Moon again and a messed up story about the Tree of Harmony. Fandom swallows it with pleasure and think they are smart for it, though.

Now, hack writers who think they are the shit, do me the favor and bring it: "Destroy" Chrysalis. You already powned the changelings into dust quite successfully. Don't disappoint me. Wait, you always do lately.

 

At least Renzetti should have stayed, preventing McCarthy to take over. Then, there might have been hope left. And Edgelord mares like Tempest Shadow would just be a thing you would laugh about in fanfictions. What a lame movie...

Geez, don't you dare talking shit about overpowered black/red male alicorns, when at the same time, characters officially do exist like Starlight Glimmer and Tempest Shadow. Full canon.

 

Let's end this with a song I associate with the mlp writers, some voice actors and supervisors.

rhodomontade

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23 hours ago, LostSanity said:

...

Another thing... I'll admit there's one thing that is consistently being proven when it comes to Starlight.

Which is the fact that she has absolutely no common sense whatsoever. Another thing she had done, which no one has ever been forgiven for and acted as if it never happened, is using mind control. She did that to her so-called 'friends' and got off scot-free as if it didn't happen.

Has anyone else that has used mind control gotten away with it and treated as if it never happened? Again... the answer is blatantly obvious and common sense.

...

You're forgetting one small detail: Being a selfish dumbass is kind of the point of Starlight's character. The whole goal with Starlight's arc is to have her go from selfish dumbass to functional member of society. As much as I cant stand "Every Little Thing She Does", I could somewhat forgive that had they dedicated a few more episodes to her having that fuck up come and bite her in the flank, then have Starlight channel it into improving herself by the time "To Where And Back Again" came around. You know, the character conflict you said the writers should have given Starlight in the first place. As for what actually happened, well... you know the story.

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18 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

You're forgetting one small detail: Being a selfish dumbass is kind of the point of Starlight's character. The whole goal with Starlight's arc is to have her go from selfish dumbass to functional member of society. As much as I cant stand "Every Little Thing She Does", I could somewhat forgive that had they dedicated a few more episodes to her having that fuck up come and bite her in the flank, then have Starlight channel it into improving herself by the time "To Where And Back Again" came around. You know, the character conflict you said the writers should have given Starlight in the first place. As for what actually happened, well... you know the story.

That probably would have been better.

But that's not what they did... so...

:scrunchy:

Also... this is for those who intend on posting in this thread and responding to every little thing I posted (should you choose to do so)...

Honestly... the whole point of this was for all of you to convince me that I'm wrong. Not to post as if I'm inherently wrong and then go on long diatribes as to why I'm wrong and then act as if I should change my mind and opinion immediately and then expect me to 'fall in line' with everyone else. NOPE.

Just keep that in mind. :newspaper:

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On 11/17/2017 at 12:40 PM, LostSanity said:

the whole point of this was for all of you to convince me that I'm wrong. Not to post as if I'm inherently wrong and then go on long diatribes as to why I'm wrong and then act as if I should change my mind and opinion immediately and then expect me to 'fall in line' with everyone else. NOPE.

So, to paraphrase...

LS:  Convince me I'm wrong.

Others: You're wrong, and here's why [reasons]

LS:  Not listening!

I'm just surprised that you actually believe that you're open to the possibility of being wrong. I thought the point of all this was more endless venting about so-called redemptions.

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He's got your number there, man. It's why I've never really felt like engaging you on anything. You're not actually open-minded or self-critical and you don't do a great job of examining your own assumptions and biases.

Well, that and the fact that you've essentially posted the same rant 975 times and feel entitled to make very thread about you and your feelings.

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On 11/16/2017 at 10:23 AM, LostSanity said:

This show used to be good. But now?

IT'S A DUMPSTER FIRE

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Now that my essay is done, I think it's time to throw my hat into the ring.

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To be honest... I didn't want to have to do this. But there seems to be little choice at this point. As I can't make a solid decision one way or the other if I stick with this fandom or throw everything out, drop everything like a rock, and probably become an anti-brony. Depending on how others respond to this will likely factor into my decision as well. In other words... check your BS at the door basically. Also... I said I would keep the bold and caps to a minimum. Which I promise I'll do my best to keep, but I make no guarantees. But I didn't say a damn thing about language. Keep this in mind as well. Either way... let my trial of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic commence. So... this little show... 'My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic' has been going on for 7 seasons now with an 8th upcoming. Back when the show first started... I liked it believe it or not. I really did. But... things have changed. The question is... why have they changed? Well... I'll be getting into that as well. In a way. I mean... I liked this show. I'm not even joking. I did. For about 5 seasons. Then... things changed.

You liked the show, but somewhere along the line something in the show changed for you that you had a big disagreement on, so let's Cross-Examine your thoughts and let us see what's going on here, because I think we can get to the heart of this problem and come to a solid agreement here.

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The first 3 reasons are basically the same though honestly. The so-called 'redeemed' characters. Those being, of course, Starlight Glimmer, Trixie, and Discord.

But are they redeemed? Truly?

To me... they aren't. In any way whatsoever.

First let's talk about the obvious ones. First up is Starlight Glimmer. This character was a decent and legitimate villain. De-facto dictatorship. You don't see that all that often. So, I applauded it. Until the S5 finale. Her reasoning for what she did was the most ridiculous excuse I've ever heard of in my entire life honestly. She did all that because she lost a friend? Wow. Just wow. Go look the freaking friend up. Or... here's an option... make new friends dumbass.

 

Let me tell you about someone I know by the name of Akena Raiden, you do not know them nor probably ever will know them. They use to be my friend for a while, but something I did really sparked some anger in them, and thus, not only excommunicated me from all forms of communication, but also removed a lot of other people from their friends list. Believe it or not, losing friends can not only be emotionally heart breaking, but sometimes it can lead you to do very irrational things.  I know I was devastated when I lost them, I considered them one of my best friends, and for a very, very long time, I help a lot of resentment to this person and wanted nothing more than to see harm come to them by any means possible. And I certainly tried. In the end, I failed though, and I learned I had to move on with my life. So, sure you could have done the same thing and told me to just get over it and make new friends, but do you know how hard it was for me to accept that? For Starlight, I imagine it was the same ordeal. She was super close to him, and yes, while she should have done what you said, there could have been many factors put into play why this was not possible, but I can tell you that anger is a powerful emotion, and once people are controlled by that, all forms of rationality go out of the window.

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Then there was the redemption itself. Which I would call the Baron Corbin of redemptions. In other words, it was freaking dumpster fire. Unbelievably rushed, made no sense whatsoever, and just horrible in general. This dumbass practically committed a crime. Messing with the time-space continuum is, to me, worse than murder. Yet she was forgiven as if nothing happened and every one of the characters pretends that it didn't happen and never happened. No. Just no. There should have been a punishment. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. End of freaking story. She committed a crime and deserved a punishment. Don't believe me? Has anyone else gotten away with a dictatorship scot free and forgiven as if it never happened? The answer here should be obvious. Research dictatorships in history if you don't believe me. The common-sense answer is NO. DICTATORS AREN'T FORGIVEN AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED.

There’s a simple solution to this answer. It’s a Children’s Cartoon Show rated TV-Y. Sometimes heavy subjects like crime and punishment are not something that’s taken lightly in a children’s cartoon, now while I admit that making her become Twilight’s friend in the end is ham-fisting it quite hard, this avenue was most likely taken so that we could get the stories we have now of Twilight mentoring Starlight in the ways of being friends with people, because as I stated earlier, anger is a powerful emotion, and it’s hard to come out of that state after being consumed by it for years.

And now let’s theoretically say she did get thrown into prison or exiled to some place by Celestia and Luna, what would this have accomplished? Sure, she was defeated by Twilight, but will that resentment she had be gone? Most likely not, and she would have found a way to escape most likely and she would have only come back to do the same thing over again, and then we end up having a redundant plot line. Sure, reoccurring villains are not something that the show really has outside of Chrysalis, but I think the writers do this intentionally because if you look at older cartoons that use reoccurring villains we would most likely end up having a Gargamel from The Smurfs situation here, and this would only lead to eventual seasonal rot. (Take Fairly Oddparents for example with Evil Cosmo and Denzel Crocker)

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Another thing... I'll admit there's one thing that is consistently being proven when it comes to Starlight.

Which is the fact that she has absolutely no common sense whatsoever. Another thing she had done, which no one has ever been forgiven for and acted as if it never happened, is using mind control. She did that to her so-called 'friends' and got off scot-free as if it didn't happen.

Has anyone else that has used mind control gotten away with it and treated as if it never happened? Again... the answer is blatantly obvious and common sense.

Starlight is on a high horse and needs to be taken down several pegs. She's OP and honestly, somewhat of a Mary-Stu if you ask me. I don't care how much the shows claims she studied magic. Twilight studied longer and, therefore, should be more powerful and had freaking Celestia as a teacher and we're just supposed to believe that Starlight self-taught her OP-ness? Yeah I don't think so.

 

Once again, this falls back to her dictatorship. She was a dictator for several years, ruling over a small town of ponies with her hoof. When you finally turn around to become a good guy, things become more socially awkward for you. Starlight acknowledges this a lot, and she tries to be careful with what she does and when she gets nervous or scared, she ends up falling back to what she knew originally worked for her, not realizing the repercussions it will have. Also, the other ponies around her are trying to treat her nice, because they to, fear for her and for themselves. You’ve turned a tyrant into a good person, if you start acting like a total jackass to them, how do you think that’s going to turn out? Chances are they may revert to the way they were, and we would be at square one all over again! Kindness may be a silly thing, but sometimes it’s the best option.

Now for her magic. If you remember from Season 1, Twilight and Spike were talking about her special talent, Twilight specifically mentions that most ponies are only good with certain types of magic. Twilight herself is proficient in just about every kind of magic you can think of, with more of an affinity towards teleportation, offensive and defensive magic.  Starlight is good with cutie mark manipulation and using time-space magic. Ponies with strong affinity for certain type of magic will learn that magic easier and faster than others would. Twilight, while yes was mentored by Celestia, we don’t know to what lengths Twilight was taught by her and most magic we see her use she had to learn on her own and by the time she got to where she was, she was self-teaching herself those magic spells as well, so to say that Starlight could not learn her magic in such a short timespan without an Alicorn teaching her how is rather mute when we the audience don’t even know the extent of Twilight’s own magical mentoring.

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2. Next... it's the worst of the worst if you ask me. Trixie.

This character... is just... NO. JUST NO.

Does this character actually have any redeeming factors? Another question with an obvious answer. Which is NO. NO SHE DOESN'T.

Trixie is an ego-maniacal, self-absorbed, egotistical, holier-than-thou bitch. I'm sorry but she just is. Not only that... she takes every opportunity she has to annoy Twilight. THAT IS NOT A CHARACTER TRAIT. IT'S A CHARACTER FLAW AND A MAJOR ONE AT THAT.

 

And we’re not allowed to have character flaws in a TV show with actual character depth and intricate plots?  If a character did not have a flaw, they would be a Mary-Sue, something you claimed Starlight to be just because of her magic alone, when that is not the case.

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Has she, or Starlight for that matter, done anything to show that they have changed? To me... they haven't. At all. In any way, whatsoever. Chrysalis doesn't really count because she captured all the Mane 6 and Princesses (which I still don't understand how she did that) and apparently, the writers choose these un-redeemed assholes instead of the 'Slice of Life' characters which should have been the characters to save them instead if you ask me. But I'll get into the writers later. But to finish Trixie off once and for all... she's an egotistical bitch who thinks she deserves everything when all she really deserves is a Superman Punch to the face. She's the Kevin Owens of this show NOT THE ROMAN REIGNS OF THE SHOW SO INCORRECT ON SO MANY LEVELS.

https://youtu.be/E1tEsA-M3jk?list=PLdJ-8r1aQFG-J4ZJwgIY2qPeJOwPjZHhI&t=82

Perhaps you forgot this episode? No Second Prances? Starlight is trying to make friends in Ponyville outside of the Mane 6. And who did she find? Someone RELATABLE. It’s not easy to make friends with someone who you don’t share similar interests with, isn’t it? Trixie is the perfect pony for Starlight because, yes, Trixie is a bitch, she most likely always will be, but that’s what make Trixie, Trixie. The best villains are the ones you hate, and you hate Trixie? That’s perfectly fine. However, Trixie has never really had a friend since everything happened to her with the Alicorn Amulet and Starlight has not had a proper friend either. And funny enough, Twilight shares a similar interest with you, Sanity, because she doesn’t trust Trixie either, in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if she still held resentment towards Trixie despite everything that’s happened, or at least she did prior to the scene I showed. Even assholes need someone in their life, why can’t it be Starlight?

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3. Next let's talk about Discord. There's really nothing for me to say about here though. He's not redeemed either. All this jerkass has proven is that he also takes every opportunity he has to annoy the characters whenever he gets the chance. AGAIN NOT A CHARACTER TRAIT A CHARACTER FLAW AND A MAJOR ONE. You know what Discord has proven? That he only cares about Fluttershy and that's it. He clearly could care less about anyone else other than himself. Not only that, he should have been turned back to stone when he betrayed everyone when he worked for Tyrek. Yet no. Once again, forgiven as if he did nothing wrong and everyone acts like it didn't happen.  This asshole has lost his chance at redemption honestly. He should have been turned back to stone and really needs to be turned back to stone. But will he? Our wonderful writers at work once again...

 

Once again, is this show not allowed to have character flaws? Character flaws are what make characters WHO THEY ARE. Discord is the equivalent of a child who wants to do nothing more than have fun and annoy people. He’s the God of Chaos, he’s a prankster, not a Shinigami who wants to destroy the world, he wants to have fun through his own methods. And yes, Fluttershy is really the only one he does care about, but did you ever think that maybe other people usually only have one person they care about? I mentioned Akena Raiden before, and that person only cares about one other person by the name of Medi-Shy who may or may not be on this forum, they use to be on the Pony Fortress 2 forums before it shut down and we moved here, but they only care about Medi as well and don’t really care about anyone else but themselves. And what’s not to say there are people in Ponyville who only really care for one other person other than themselves?

And as for Discord’s betrayal, sure, they could have turned him back to stone, and chances are, they probably would have, if not for Tyrek betraying Discord. This was the biggest turning point for Discord, because he realized the importance of having a friend, even if it’s just one. Breaking Fluttershy’s trust utterly devastated him. Discord realized how important Fluttershy really was to him, and that’s something he didn’t want to break again.

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1, 2, & 3 Addendum:

You know what I think my main problem is?

That these characters in question (Starlight, Trixie, and Discord) aren't actually struggling with what they've done. I mean... if these characters were actually consistently struggling and/or being haunted with what they've done... then maybe, just maybe I'd be more willing to accept it. But they aren't, haven't been, and seemingly never will be. Because this show is acting as if everything they've done never happened. Which may be the worst and most horrendous part of all this.

 

Yes and no. Trixie and Discord mostly, but Starlight comes back to her past, and acknowledges it when it comes up. Starlight is still struggling, and the show uses this because Twilight is trying to teach Starlight how to move on from her past life. Starlight is still struggling, and if you can’t see that then it shows you’re a bit blind by your own frustration and, dare I say it, ANGER?

You mentioned in a previous thread that you’re finding the community to become toxic, but really, is it you who is becoming toxic? Does it have something to do with the fans of these three characters that’s making you upset? It’s ok to hate characters, but you shouldn’t let that be a ruling factor into hating the show overall. If you’re hating the show just because of these three characters than you’re being overanalytical. You should like the show for what it is, and if it’s that bad, just skip the episodes that involve these characters. Trixie and Discord don’t show up as often and there are plenty of episodes that don’t involve Starlight in them or she’s a minor character in the episode itself, it’s simple enough.

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I think that's my main issue.

4. Let's talk about the writers of the show now. They used to be good. But now? NOT ANYMORE. I don't know what happened to them but they seem to have lost use of their brains and their common sense as well.

As I've been thinking about this... some of the fault most likely lies with the writers/show runners/whatever you want to call them. They seem to be getting talentless hacks who have consistently proven that either a) they're hypocrites (Fame and Misfortune) who attack their own fandom for complaining about complaining yet they continue to shove things down our throats and expect us to just like and accept them b) they didn't actually take the extra mile and do actual research on the show. As in, oh I don't know, watching all the other episodes before they actually started writing them themselves? I mean, even I go the extra mile when I write fanfiction on media and I don't even consider myself a writer. Something else that should have been flat out common sense. I even did this back when I was true fan of this show/series and wrote an insane crossover fanfiction with this and a bunch of other media (anime, video games, other cartoons, etc.) When I wasn't sure about something, I took the time to do research and look it up to make sure I knew what I was doing and what I was talking about.

 

Oh boy, are you sure you did your own research before making this point? Do you know who wrote Fame and Misfortune? M.A Larson. That episode was not an attack on the fandom, it was poking fun at the fandom, because there have been people who make certain complaints about the Mane 6 and the way they behave and/or are portrayed in certain episodes. M.A. Larson was acknowledging the community and this episode became one of the best episodes of the season. If you think that’s an attack then you are sensitive to criticism, aren’t you?

Besides, you’ve only mentioned one episode. You haven’t even presented any solid evidence of the writers’ incompetency via a list of episodes. But before you even say anything, I’m excluding anything from Megan McCarthy because she is the low-hanging fruit of the show, so don’t bring her up. You’re talking about doing research and looking things up when you haven’t even done so here, so your argument is extremely invalid unless you can provide evidence to back this up.

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Yet these so-called 'writers/show runners/whatever' didn't seem to do that at all and just started writing as if they knew what they were doing when they continue to prove that they don't and are flat out hypocrites. They should have watched all the previous episodes so they had a basic idea of what the show was doing, where it was going, and what to do when they started writing. Yet they didn't, clearly haven't, and seemingly never will. It's too little to late at this point to do that. But still. In other words, some of the blame for the direction of this show and why it's beginning to shove things down our throats may actually lie with the current talentless hack writers/show runners/whatever.

Once again, you don’t even list the name of said “talentless hacks”. So how am I to take you seriously when you have no evidence?

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Plus... let's not forget that the current writers have basically confirmed themselves to be nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. Don't believe me? Fame and Misfortune would like a word with you, where the writers practically attacked their own freaking fandom that pretty much cause their shows popularity in the first place. Hypocritical much? Yes. Yes, it is. Especially when you shove horrible, half-assed, half thought out redemptions down our throats and just expect us to like them and except them and then expect us to like said so-called 'redeemed' character. LOL. I DON'T THINK SO.

You keep saying attack. I don’t think you understand that word correctly. Once again, you use this episode as a base for your argument against the writers, but you don’t even point out what it is they did in the episode that is considered as an “attack” against the fandom. So once again, your argument is barely treading any water.

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The writers are at fault for all this BS as well.

5. Next... let's talk about the brony fandom itself. It was decent at first. Not so much anymore now is it?

Practically every so-called 'fan' of this show/series on practically every so-called 'fan forum' I've been on has the same BS expectations from me that the talentless hack writers do. Which is, of course, expecting me to like all this BS being shoved down my throat and just accept it and like it as if it's THE GREATEST THING EVER when it clearly ISN'T and seemingly HASN'T for quite a long time now.

Practically everyone wants me to like Starlight Glimmer and act like she's redeemed. NO.

Practically everyone wants me to like Trixie and act like she's redeemed. GOD NO.

Practically everyone wants me to like Discord and act like he's redeemed. YEAH I DON'T THINK SO.

Yet what happens when I don't and I have this clearly controversial opinion that I have? Everyone nags and bitches at me. Constantly. I won't name any names but they know who they are and there are a few on this very forum that have also done this. They act as if my opinion is crap, I have no reason to have it, and I should change it immediately. As if I should 'fall in line' with everyone else?

 

Ok, seriously, who has been nagging you about this, aside from me doing this for an argument? I’m only doing this because you wanted people to make a solid argument. But I’ve stated earlier that you don’t HAVE to like these characters, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I know there have been people who nag at me for things I like, like Luigi for example. People make fun of me all the time for liking “the King of Second Bananas”, but you know what? I ignore them and stick to what I like. If you don’t like these three characters, that is fine and you shouldn’t let other people tell you what you should and shouldn’t like. Every fandom is going to have its naysayers and its zealots. As the saying goes, “you do you”.

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Guess what that is? Here it is again everyone!! De-facto dictatorship.

Your not supposed to be the 'same' as everyone else. Your supposed to be unique. Yourself. Different. Out of line. Not 'fall in line'

Apparently the brony fandom didn't get this memo. Must have been lost. Or ignored. I'm guessing ignored. I refuse to 'fall in line'. End of story.

 

That’s perfectly fine, I agree with you. People shouldn’t force you. My arguments about the three characters were not for you to start liking them, but only to show you that your points may or may not be wrong.  I’m not forcing you to like them either, but understand that these characters have a place in the show and they’re going to stay, whether you like them or not.

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6. Now let's talk about the rumors of Chrysalis getting a redemption in Season 8. NO. JUST NO. I'm not even going to list the reasons why. There are just too many and it would make this even longer. What is the reason for this? Because I fail to see one. At all. In any way whatsoever.

Notice a pattern yet? Let me spell it out for you.

I'm sick of the redemption's. Especially when they are half-thought out, half-assed, horrible dumpster fires like the ones I already mentioned have been. I'm fairly sure this one would be no different. I just can't take the redemption's anymore. I really can't. If Chrysalis is redeemed I don't think I'll even care how it's done. I'LL QUIT. NO QUESTIONS ASKED. END OF STORY. Because there is absolutely no reason to do this in any way whatsoever. This is my main concern with staying. I don't want to take the risk of having to go through yet another half-thought out, half-assed dumpster fire so-called 'redemption.'

 

And here we are, at the end of the line. I really have nothing to say here, because Chrysalis thus far is the longest running villain and has not been redeemed yet as far as we know of. Rumor has it she will show up in the opener of Season 8. Chrysalis has been doing what she has done for years because it’s how she survived in the wasteland among her people and how they fed. Learning to love others is not something she comprehends, and yes, it is sappy if this is the road they take, but by the sounds of it, you’ll leave the fandom no matter what happens. Who knows, maybe she’ll get obliterated like Sombra, but that’s hoping for a miracle I suppose.

I suppose in the end, if she is redeemed, there’s no swaying your argument. But at least hear me out on this. If you do leave the fandom, do not leave it as a hater or an anti-brony, but just accept the fact that things happen the way they do and move on with your life. Holding resentment for the fandom because of decisions you don’t agree with will only make you a bitter person in the long run, and you’re only going to make yourself look just as bad as the annoying parts of the brony fandom itself. So please, if you leave, don’t be angry when you do.

This took me over 2 hours to write up, so let's not let this be all in vain.

Toki Zensekai is out, PEACE!

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On 11/18/2017 at 1:25 PM, Friendship is Horses said:

So, to paraphrase...

LS:  Convince me I'm wrong.

Others: You're wrong, and here's why [reasons]

LS:  Not listening!

I'm just surprised that you actually believe that you're open to the possibility of being wrong. I thought the point of all this was more endless venting about so-called redemptions.

I'm open to people that don't post with BS.

20 hours ago, ABronyAccount said:

He's got your number there, man. It's why I've never really felt like engaging you on anything. You're not actually open-minded or self-critical and you don't do a great job of examining your own assumptions and biases.

Well, that and the fact that you've essentially posted the same rant 975 times and feel entitled to make very thread about you and your feelings.

No he's not. Everyone just wants me to accept everything being shoved down my throat. LOLNOPE.

 

PAGE BREAK HERE

Oh look. Someone ignored my post about posting long diatribe's. But fine.

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Let me tell you about someone I know by the name of Akena Raiden, you do not know them nor probably ever will know them. They use to be my friend for a while, but something I did really sparked some anger in them, and thus, not only excommunicated me from all forms of communication, but also removed a lot of other people from their friends list. Believe it or not, losing friends can not only be emotionally heart breaking, but sometimes it can lead you to do very irrational things.  I know I was devastated when I lost them, I considered them one of my best friends, and for a very, very long time, I help a lot of resentment to this person and wanted nothing more than to see harm come to them by any means possible. And I certainly tried. In the end, I failed though, and I learned I had to move on with my life. So, sure you could have done the same thing and told me to just get over it and make new friends, but do you know how hard it was for me to accept that? For Starlight, I imagine it was the same ordeal. She was super close to him, and yes, while she should have done what you said, there could have been many factors put into play why this was not possible, but I can tell you that anger is a powerful emotion, and once people are controlled by that, all forms of rationality go out of the window.

Although I agree that anger can lead to rash decisions and vital mistakes (as, believe it or not, I've done this as well) this is when you take the time to calm yourself down, take some deep breaths and evaluate your situation. In other words... this is called COMMON SENSE.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

There’s a simple solution to this answer. It’s a Children’s Cartoon Show rated TV-Y. Sometimes heavy subjects like crime and punishment are not something that’s taken lightly in a children’s cartoon, now while I admit that making her become Twilight’s friend in the end is ham-fisting it quite hard, this avenue was most likely taken so that we could get the stories we have now of Twilight mentoring Starlight in the ways of being friends with people, because as I stated earlier, anger is a powerful emotion, and it’s hard to come out of that state after being consumed by it for years.

 

And now let’s theoretically say she did get thrown into prison or exiled to some place by Celestia and Luna, what would this have accomplished? Sure, she was defeated by Twilight, but will that resentment she had be gone? Most likely not, and she would have found a way to escape most likely and she would have only come back to do the same thing over again, and then we end up having a redundant plot line. Sure, reoccurring villains are not something that the show really has outside of Chrysalis, but I think the writers do this intentionally because if you look at older cartoons that use reoccurring villains we would most likely end up having a Gargamel from The Smurfs situation here, and this would only lead to eventual seasonal rot. (Take Fairly Oddparents for example with Evil Cosmo and Denzel Crocker)

I already responded to the first paragraph above.

It would have taught her that you don't commit what was basically the worst crime imaginable and get away scot-free. Plus... it's a deterrent. As for her 'resentment' I don't really see resentment for anything other than being unwillingly to start over from scratch and trying to make other friends and using common sense.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

Once again, this falls back to her dictatorship. She was a dictator for several years, ruling over a small town of ponies with her hoof. When you finally turn around to become a good guy, things become more socially awkward for you. Starlight acknowledges this a lot, and she tries to be careful with what she does and when she gets nervous or scared, she ends up falling back to what she knew originally worked for her, not realizing the repercussions it will have. Also, the other ponies around her are trying to treat her nice, because they to, fear for her and for themselves. You’ve turned a tyrant into a good person, if you start acting like a total jackass to them, how do you think that’s going to turn out? Chances are they may revert to the way they were, and we would be at square one all over again! Kindness may be a silly thing, but sometimes it’s the best option.

 

Now for her magic. If you remember from Season 1, Twilight and Spike were talking about her special talent, Twilight specifically mentions that most ponies are only good with certain types of magic. Twilight herself is proficient in just about every kind of magic you can think of, with more of an affinity towards teleportation, offensive and defensive magic.  Starlight is good with cutie mark manipulation and using time-space magic. Ponies with strong affinity for certain type of magic will learn that magic easier and faster than others would. Twilight, while yes was mentored by Celestia, we don’t know to what lengths Twilight was taught by her and most magic we see her use she had to learn on her own and by the time she got to where she was, she was self-teaching herself those magic spells as well, so to say that Starlight could not learn her magic in such a short timespan without an Alicorn teaching her how is rather mute when we the audience don’t even know the extent of Twilight’s own magical mentoring.

Really where does she acknowledge it? Because I didn't see that anywhere. By the way, her continuing to fall back to what she originally knows actually only proves my point that she has absolutely no common sense whatsoever. Kindness is not an option for a de-facto dictatorship. There's no redemption for that. Go look through history to see my point.

You just ignored my point. Even if that is the case, it's way too OP and it really doesn't matter if others can learn it quicker or not. Abusing the time-space continuum is flat-out cheating if you ask me and just really shows how weak Ms. OP Mary-Sue actually is. Because she had to resort to cheating just to get her way. That's like using a CodeBreaker on video games just to beat it. It's the easy way out. Even though I've done this myself I quit doing that now (mostly because CodeBreakers and GameSharks are obsolete now) and I've begun to beat video games legitimately now. Even beating Secret Bosses legitimately which is an accomplishment in and amongst itself.

It's the problem I have with Master Xehanort. He cheated to get his way in Dream Drop Distance and made the KH series even more complicated which was NOT a good thing.

In other words... Starlight's magic is flat-out OP and practically Mary-Sue-esque. This excuse doesn't really work here.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

And we’re not allowed to have character flaws in a TV show with actual character depth and intricate plots?  If a character did not have a flaw, they would be a Mary-Sue, something you claimed Starlight to be just because of her magic alone, when that is not the case.

Trixie has to many and didn't deserve a redemption and never got one. It was horrible atrocity that was half-assed and half thought out. This bitch has only proven my original point of she has learned nothing. Period.

I will NEVER like her. The fact that this show is practically expecting me to like her makes this even worse. Wonderful talentless hack writers at work once again!!

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

Perhaps you forgot this episode? No Second Prances? Starlight is trying to make friends in Ponyville outside of the Mane 6. And who did she find? Someone RELATABLE. It’s not easy to make friends with someone who you don’t share similar interests with, isn’t it? Trixie is the perfect pony for Starlight because, yes, Trixie is a bitch, she most likely always will be, but that’s what make Trixie, Trixie. The best villains are the ones you hate, and you hate Trixie? That’s perfectly fine. However, Trixie has never really had a friend since everything happened to her with the Alicorn Amulet and Starlight has not had a proper friend either. And funny enough, Twilight shares a similar interest with you, Sanity, because she doesn’t trust Trixie either, in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if she still held resentment towards Trixie despite everything that’s happened, or at least she did prior to the scene I showed. Even assholes need someone in their life, why can’t it be Starlight?

You know what? I'll give this to you. Because, at first, when I watched this episode, I felt like it was speaking directly to me. About giving second chances. So I told myself I would give Starlight and Trixie a second chance.

Until the dumbasses bungled it with Starlight using Mind Control (yet another UNFORGIVABLE act) and Trixie REFUSING TO CHANGE IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER AND CONTINUING TO ACT LIKE A BITCH.

When this happened, I threw my second chance out the window.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

Once again, is this show not allowed to have character flaws? Character flaws are what make characters WHO THEY ARE. Discord is the equivalent of a child who wants to do nothing more than have fun and annoy people. He’s the God of Chaos, he’s a prankster, not a Shinigami who wants to destroy the world, he wants to have fun through his own methods. And yes, Fluttershy is really the only one he does care about, but did you ever think that maybe other people usually only have one person they care about? I mentioned Akena Raiden before, and that person only cares about one other person by the name of Medi-Shy who may or may not be on this forum, they use to be on the Pony Fortress 2 forums before it shut down and we moved here, but they only care about Medi as well and don’t really care about anyone else but themselves. And what’s not to say there are people in Ponyville who only really care for one other person other than themselves?

 

And as for Discord’s betrayal, sure, they could have turned him back to stone, and chances are, they probably would have, if not for Tyrek betraying Discord. This was the biggest turning point for Discord, because he realized the importance of having a friend, even if it’s just one. Breaking Fluttershy’s trust utterly devastated him. Discord realized how important Fluttershy really was to him, and that’s something he didn’t want to break again.

I knew I shouldn't have included Discord in my original post. I can't argue points about him. So I'll let you have this as well.

Discord was better as a villain and I just don't like him and I don't think I ever will. Because he's a jerkass to everyone around him except Fluttershy which makes me feel as if he deserves a Superman Punch to the face as well.

I can't argue this point with you. I really can't. So have this one too. The fact remains though that I can't bring myself to like Discord. I really can't. He's too much of an asshole, and if I had a choice, I'd have absolutely nothing to do with him. But once again I don't because the talentles hack writers keep shoving him down my throat and expecting me to like him. Which I just CAN NOT and WILL NOT do. There's nothing redeeming about him either.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

Yes and no. Trixie and Discord mostly, but Starlight comes back to her past, and acknowledges it when it comes up. Starlight is still struggling, and the show uses this because Twilight is trying to teach Starlight how to move on from her past life. Starlight is still struggling, and if you can’t see that then it shows you’re a bit blind by your own frustration and, dare I say it, ANGER?

 

You mentioned in a previous thread that you’re finding the community to become toxic, but really, is it you who is becoming toxic? Does it have something to do with the fans of these three characters that’s making you upset? It’s ok to hate characters, but you shouldn’t let that be a ruling factor into hating the show overall. If you’re hating the show just because of these three characters than you’re being overanalytical. You should like the show for what it is, and if it’s that bad, just skip the episodes that involve these characters. Trixie and Discord don’t show up as often and there are plenty of episodes that don’t involve Starlight in them or she’s a minor character in the episode itself, it’s simple enough.

I'll bite.

Give me an example of Starlight actually struggling with what she has done. Because I've seen every single episode and I don't recall a single episode where she struggled with what she did. Or Trixie. Or Discord.

As for your second point... I almost don't want to respond to it because it's a little bit insulting. What's toxic is that practically everyone seems to think I should like these characters and 'accept that they are redeemed' when they clearly aren't, haven't been, and possibly never will be. (to me anyway)

Also... when I commit to a show, I commit to all episodes of a show. Not picking and choosing. I'm too much of a perfectionist to do what you suggest and skip episodes.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

Oh boy, are you sure you did your own research before making this point? Do you know who wrote Fame and Misfortune? M.A Larson. That episode was not an attack on the fandom, it was poking fun at the fandom, because there have been people who make certain complaints about the Mane 6 and the way they behave and/or are portrayed in certain episodes. M.A. Larson was acknowledging the community and this episode became one of the best episodes of the season. If you think that’s an attack then you are sensitive to criticism, aren’t you?

 

Besides, you’ve only mentioned one episode. You haven’t even presented any solid evidence of the writers’ incompetency via a list of episodes. But before you even say anything, I’m excluding anything from Megan McCarthy because she is the low-hanging fruit of the show, so don’t bring her up. You’re talking about doing research and looking things up when you haven’t even done so here, so your argument is extremely invalid unless you can provide evidence to back this up.

Every single episode involving Starlight Glimmer, Trixie, and Discord practically screams the writers shoving them down my throat, wanting me to like them, and acting like I should accept that they are redeemed.

There's your list.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

Once again, you don’t even list the name of said “talentless hacks”. So how am I to take you seriously when you have no evidence?

See above. Pretty much anyone that did a Starlight Glimmer, Trixie, or Discord episode.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

You keep saying attack. I don’t think you understand that word correctly. Once again, you use this episode as a base for your argument against the writers, but you don’t even point out what it is they did in the episode that is considered as an “attack” against the fandom. So once again, your argument is barely treading any water.

They bitched about the bitching while continuing forcing shit my throat that is half-assed, half-thought out horrible atrocious so-called 'redemption's' (in other episodes that wasn't the one in question)

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

Ok, seriously, who has been nagging you about this, aside from me doing this for an argument? I’m only doing this because you wanted people to make a solid argument. But I’ve stated earlier that you don’t HAVE to like these characters, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I know there have been people who nag at me for things I like, like Luigi for example. People make fun of me all the time for liking “the King of Second Bananas”, but you know what? I ignore them and stick to what I like. If you don’t like these three characters, that is fine and you shouldn’t let other people tell you what you should and shouldn’t like. Every fandom is going to have its naysayers and its zealots. As the saying goes, “you do you”.

I could if people would stop nagging me every time I state I don't like them. Yet they do. Then expect me to change my opinion on the matter, like them, and act as if they are amazing and are 'redeemed.'

I'm not naming any names because I already have 2 strikes and I'm not getting perma-banned from another MLP: FiM forum. Naming names would be calling out people on this forum which is apparently against the rules on here.

If I saw these people in real life... I'd literally Superman Punch them courtesy of Roman Reigns.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

That’s perfectly fine, I agree with you. People shouldn’t force you. My arguments about the three characters were not for you to start liking them, but only to show you that your points may or may not be wrong.  I’m not forcing you to like them either, but understand that these characters have a place in the show and they’re going to stay, whether you like them or not.

That's the problem though. I can't take these characters anymore. I really can't. Them or their so-called BS 'redemption's' and acting as if they did nothing wrong, when they clearly did, acting as if it never happened, and then everyone else pretending that it never happened as well.

Struggle with what you did for fuck's sake. I apologize for the language here but I can't put it any other way.

4 hours ago, Toki Zensekai said:

And here we are, at the end of the line. I really have nothing to say here, because Chrysalis thus far is the longest running villain and has not been redeemed yet as far as we know of. Rumor has it she will show up in the opener of Season 8. Chrysalis has been doing what she has done for years because it’s how she survived in the wasteland among her people and how they fed. Learning to love others is not something she comprehends, and yes, it is sappy if this is the road they take, but by the sounds of it, you’ll leave the fandom no matter what happens. Who knows, maybe she’ll get obliterated like Sombra, but that’s hoping for a miracle I suppose.

 

I suppose in the end, if she is redeemed, there’s no swaying your argument. But at least hear me out on this. If you do leave the fandom, do not leave it as a hater or an anti-brony, but just accept the fact that things happen the way they do and move on with your life. Holding resentment for the fandom because of decisions you don’t agree with will only make you a bitter person in the long run, and you’re only going to make yourself look just as bad as the annoying parts of the brony fandom itself. So please, if you leave, don’t be angry when you do.

 

This took me over 2 hours to write up, so let's not let this be all in vain.

Toki Zensekai is out, PEACE!

All I can do is say I'll think about it.

It only took me 1 hour to respond to this.

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@LostSanity

@Toki Zensekai

You know how when Metroid: Other M came out, fans said that Nintendo spent more time telling instead of showing with Samus and Adam's relationship? In a sense, this is the same problem with people who can't stand Starlight Glimmer. Case in point, how she was handled in Season 6:

The Crystaling: Decent start to what could be an interesting character arc.

No Second Prances: Neat, Starlight gets a new friend.

Every Little Thing She Does: First episode in half a season. She screws up big time... okay...

To Where And Back Again:

Twilight Sparkle: I may have offered some guidance, but you are responsible for the pony you've become.

Old lady from Wendy's commercial: *Looks at Starlight's role in Season 6* Hey, where's the beef?

In other words, the writers got the ball rolling, dropped her for half a season, brought her back to mind control Twilight's friends, then made her next appearance have her be the hero for the finale. IMO, the pacing for this arc is just bad. If they had three or four more episodes (possibly moving "All Bottled Up" to Season 6) showing Starlight learning from her screw ups, this could have been better. (And the same could be said about having Throax learning to be a king in this season, but that's another story). As it is,  once again, IMO, it's an unsatisfying mess that's devoid of what could have made this arc work. Not helped that Season 7 kind of made the same mistakes.

 

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20 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

@LostSanity

@Toki Zensekai

You know how when Metroid: Other M came out, fans said that Nintendo spent more time telling instead of showing with Samus and Adam's relationship? In a sense, this is the same problem with people who can't stand Starlight Glimmer. Case in point, how she was handled in Season 6:

The Crystaling: Decent start to what could be an interesting character arc.

No Second Prances: Neat, Starlight gets a new friend.

Every Little Thing She Does: First episode in half a season. She screws up big time... okay...

To Where And Back Again:

Twilight Sparkle: I may have offered some guidance, but you are responsible for the pony you've become.

Old lady from Wendy's commercial: *Looks at Starlight's role in Season 6* Hey, where's the beef?

In other words, the writers got the ball rolling, dropped her for half a season, brought her back to mind control Twilight's friends, then made her next appearance have her be the hero for the finale. IMO, the pacing for this arc is just bad. If they had three or four more episodes (possibly moving "All Bottled Up" to Season 6) showing Starlight learning from her screw ups, this could have been better. (And the same could be said about having Throax learning to be a king in this season, but that's another story). As it is,  once again, IMO, it's an unsatisfying mess that's devoid of what could have made this arc work. Not helped that Season 7 kind of made the same mistakes.

 

 

I think the only thing I can add to this is that keep in mind the writers of the show come and go and most are brought in on stints. There's not a consistent team, nor is there a very long running theme. The show is meant to be written episodically, and not as a continuous series where each episode feeds in some way into the plot of the other, or even that characters who learned a lesson before will even retain it between episodes, since its emphasis is fairly isolated self-contained stories outside of a few major points controlled in part by the directors. And since the writers for one season may not always be the same for writers on the previous we get multiple interpretations of the same set of characters and the consistency of portraying them or lack there of comes down to what the writer of the day decides that character is based on what they are shown when taking on the job; it's very doubtful that anyone apart from the veteran Faust-era showrunners are given a screening of the entire show up until that point, and at most or least they're shown the important installments throughout the series, probably decided by the writers (If Chrysallis is going to be a main antagonist for an important season opener or finisher, then the writer in charge if he or she is new for example may be asked or made to watch anything featuring Chrysallis).

 

So Starlight Glimmer is only really ever important if it's decided she is important, keeping in mind we have six-other ponies and one dragon who are supposed to be considered the main cast of the show. Glim Glam might get her episodes here and there, but I imagine she's not being too terribly stressed as a mainstay or writers are encouraged to try and focus elsewhere.

 

That said, the format of the show and it operates means there will be a lack of consistency in comparison to more series, story-oriented television shows where there is a one main plot throughout the season or the entire show which would call for a handful of writers to stay on the entire time working together to make interlocking story arcs that tie one episode into another like one scene to another. And if judged as such then the show clearly shows weakness. How many times as Fluttershy for instance learned to be assertive?

 

I could make an argument about how Hasbro would consider the present course of action less expensive because the cut investment in time to get everything to be told as a single long over-arching plot would be cheaper than hiring a full-time writer and not a couple odd-job freelancers. But I don't have those numbers in front of me and not wanting to devote too much time to making the sort of wrong argument that'd be the TV-show version of "Microtransactions subsidize game-production costs" I'll end it there until a production budget can be found and produced across the season(s) with comparisons to other similar shows with a different story-telling methodology.

 

So right now the best we can hope for is if we drop Jim Miller and get MA Larson back at least.

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23 hours ago, AaronMk said:

 

I think the only thing I can add to this is that keep in mind the writers of the show come and go and most are brought in on stints. There's not a consistent team, nor is there a very long running theme. The show is meant to be written episodically, and not as a continuous series where each episode feeds in some way into the plot of the other, or even that characters who learned a lesson before will even retain it between episodes, since its emphasis is fairly isolated self-contained stories outside of a few major points controlled in part by the directors. And since the writers for one season may not always be the same for writers on the previous we get multiple interpretations of the same set of characters and the consistency of portraying them or lack there of comes down to what the writer of the day decides that character is based on what they are shown when taking on the job; it's very doubtful that anyone apart from the veteran Faust-era showrunners are given a screening of the entire show up until that point, and at most or least they're shown the important installments throughout the series, probably decided by the writers (If Chrysallis is going to be a main antagonist for an important season opener or finisher, then the writer in charge if he or she is new for example may be asked or made to watch anything featuring Chrysallis).

 

So Starlight Glimmer is only really ever important if it's decided she is important, keeping in mind we have six-other ponies and one dragon who are supposed to be considered the main cast of the show. Glim Glam might get her episodes here and there, but I imagine she's not being too terribly stressed as a mainstay or writers are encouraged to try and focus elsewhere.

 

That said, the format of the show and it operates means there will be a lack of consistency in comparison to more series, story-oriented television shows where there is a one main plot throughout the season or the entire show which would call for a handful of writers to stay on the entire time working together to make interlocking story arcs that tie one episode into another like one scene to another. And if judged as such then the show clearly shows weakness. How many times as Fluttershy for instance learned to be assertive?

 

I could make an argument about how Hasbro would consider the present course of action less expensive because the cut investment in time to get everything to be told as a single long over-arching plot would be cheaper than hiring a full-time writer and not a couple odd-job freelancers. But I don't have those numbers in front of me and not wanting to devote too much time to making the sort of wrong argument that'd be the TV-show version of "Microtransactions subsidize game-production costs" I'll end it there until a production budget can be found and produced across the season(s) with comparisons to other similar shows with a different story-telling methodology.

 

So right now the best we can hope for is if we drop Jim Miller and get MA Larson back at least.

That's really no excuse either though.

There's no consistency for these so-called 'redeemed' characters and the writers continue to shove them down my throat and seem to expect me to just like them and act and accept as if they are redeemed.

If they want me to like them, or at the very least, be more lenient to them, they need to struggle with what they did. End of story.

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On 11/19/2017 at 5:39 PM, LostSanity said:

...

When this happened, I threw my second chance out the window.

I knew I shouldn't have included Discord in my original post. I can't argue points about him. So I'll let you have this as well.

Discord was better as a villain and I just don't like him and I don't think I ever will. Because he's a jerkass to everyone around him except Fluttershy which makes me feel as if he deserves a Superman Punch to the face as well.

I can't argue this point with you. I really can't. So have this one too. The fact remains though that I can't bring myself to like Discord. I really can't. He's too much of an asshole, and if I had a choice, I'd have absolutely nothing to do with him. But once again I don't because the talentles hack writers keep shoving him down my throat and expecting me to like him. Which I just CAN NOT and WILL NOT do. There's nothing redeeming about him either.

...

So, Discord's basically the MLP version of Beerus, except with nowhere near as high the body count (at least, not one that is explicitly shown or mentioned). Though I admit, as much as I like Discord, I think Beerus, at least from what little I've read about him, works slightly better, if only because the Dragon Ball series wasn't designed for teaching life lessons (at least, not to the extent of MLP) and that Akira Toriyama had the sense to not base a good chunk of the humorous parts of Beerus' personality on pop culture references. (Then again, I haven't seen too much of Dragon Ball ever since the Buu saga, so I'm not sure if I'm accurate or if I'm talking nonsense.)

Also, at least Discord's care for Fluttershy seems genuine (for now at least) and he was called out on his bullshit on "Dungeons And Discords". Also, many people here have disliked "What About Discord?", both from him being a bigger jackass than normal (which is saying a lot) and from a structural standpoint. Whether or not this makes up for whatever problems fans have with the guy, I leave to them.

 

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19 hours ago, WaterPulse said:

So, Discord's basically the MLP version of Beerus, except with nowhere near as high the body count (at least, not one that is explicitly shown or mentioned). Though I admit, as much as I like Discord, I think Beerus, at least from what little I've read about him, works slightly better, if only because the Dragon Ball series wasn't designed for teaching life lessons (at least, not to the extent of MLP) and that Akira Toriyama had the sense to not base a good chunk of the humorous parts of Beerus' personality on pop culture references. (Then again, I haven't seen too much of Dragon Ball ever since the Buu saga, so I'm not sure if I'm accurate or if I'm talking nonsense.)

Also, at least Discord's care for Fluttershy seems genuine (for now at least) and he was called out on his bullshit on "Dungeons And Discords". Also, many people here have disliked "What About Discord?", both from him being a bigger jackass than normal (which is saying a lot) and from a structural standpoint. Whether or not this makes up for whatever problems fans have with the guy, I leave to them.

 

I actually watch the english dub of Dragon Ball Super and this is pretty much accurate.

I can't say I'm a fan of Beerus but he does have his hilarity moments which at least makes him somewhat likeable.

Discord is just an asshole. Period.

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13 hours ago, ChB said:

Excellent post, @Toki Zensekai

I responded to it though.

Waiting for an actual example of Ms. OP Mary-Sue struggling with what she did, which, as far as I can tell, is never.

:newspaper:

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3 hours ago, LostSanity said:

I responded to it though.

Waiting for an actual example of Ms. OP Mary-Sue struggling with what she did, which, as far as I can tell, is never.

:newspaper:

I know, I read it.

 

If by "struggle," you mean that they have learned their lessons and are making an effort to overcome it, then yes, Starlight has been struggling. She learned her lesson at the end of "Every Little Thing She Does," and I don't recall her intentionally mind-controlling a pony without remorse, since then. 

 

The rest of your counter-points are unconvincing to me. For one, just because it is common sense for someone to calm down from a loss and move on, doesn't mean that all people will do it. Some people hold grudges for a long time, and it eventually leads them to do ugly things. Starlight is no exception. While I agree that Starlight's back-story is not the best, I don't think it was unrealistic. 

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